From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Stallman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gtk scrollbar: thumb too short Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:20:48 -0500 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: <20030325193739.ZGIN3924.fep01-svc.swip.net@gaffa.gaia.swipnet.se> <1048780121.14517.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Reply-To: rms@gnu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1048866077 18731 80.91.224.249 (28 Mar 2003 15:41:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 15:41:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 28 16:41:12 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 18yvy1-0004pC-00 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:40:29 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 18yw0R-0005Ze-00 for ; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:43:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yvxQ-00065G-0A for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:39:52 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yvhb-0005u0-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:23:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yvhN-0005ah-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:23:20 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([199.232.76.164]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.10.13) id 18yvey-000440-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:20:48 -0500 Original-Received: from rms by fencepost.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.10) id 18yvey-00075x-00; Fri, 28 Mar 2003 10:20:48 -0500 Original-To: Owen Taylor In-reply-to: <1048780121.14517.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> (message from Owen Taylor on 27 Mar 2003 10:48:42 -0500) Original-cc: jan.h.d@swipnet.se Original-cc: jody@gnome.org Original-cc: kai.grossjohann@uni-duisburg.de X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b5 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:12705 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:12705 * I've always found the emacs behavior with respect to the end of the buffer quite confusing personally... I think it would be far less confusing if the region that was scrolled was actually confined to the lines of the buffer (or maybe lines in buffer + 1) If you mean that it would be impossible for the end of the buffer to be located above the last line of the window, that would be taking away a feature that users are accustomed to. We can't do that. * Allowing dragging the scrollbar thumb past the end of the trough is something I'm quite hesitant to do: - It will look like a bug to the user - Some themes may not be able to handle such a case nicely (think of a theme where the stepper arrows are round circles in the trough instead of being as wide as the trough ... in that case the thumb can't simply be truncated by the stepper arrow) It isn't a bug, though--and what else should the scroll bar do? What happens in those themes will be logical, and will show that the current visible window extends past the end of the text. - The extra blank lines actually extend the scrollable space - that is, the thumb is always confined to the trough, it just shrinks to indicate the longer scrollbar space. In Emacs, these aren't "extra blank lines". Emacs doesn't extend the buffer contents to reach the bottom of the window. The Gnumeric behavior isn't right for Emacs. The GUI for a program should reflect the data in the program, not vice versa.