[Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Richard Stallman]

Is there any chance you could work on this?
Since you wrote the tty color stuff, this would probably
be easier for you than for anyone else.

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Envelope-to: rms@gnu.org
Delivery-date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:24:10 -0400
From: Marcus Brinkmann <Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
To: bug-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: fonts on terminal?
Content-Disposition: inline
Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-admin@gnu.org
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 21:23:41 +0200

Hi,

I am writing the GNU Hurd console right now, and can easily support several
fonts at the same time.  This would allow you to switch to normal,
italic, or even real bold (not extra bright colors, but bold glyphs) using
terminal escape sequences.  There is a standard sequence for italics,
sitm/ritm, but no default sequence for real bold (termcap bold is usually used to
get the other 8 of the 16 available foreground color).

Of course, because this feature is obscure on todays PCs (although not on
all terminals in existance), it not used by modern curses applications, but
it could be.  Is there interest in supporting alternative (italics, bold)
faces for font lock mode in emacs, and would it be easy for you to add it?
Then I will add it to the Hurd console, with sitm/ritm for italics, and a
new capability as a GNU extension for real bold (sbom/rbom?  we should
probably consult the ncurses people about that).

Thanks,
Marcus

- -- 
`Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU      http://www.gnu.org    marcus@gnu.org
Marcus Brinkmann              The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/
Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de
http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/


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Re: [Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Miles Bader]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> Is there interest in supporting alternative (italics, bold)
> faces for font lock mode in emacs, and would it be easy for you to add it?

I think it would be very easy to add to emacs.

[though I'm not sure why the reference to font-lock -- font-lock
naturally already supports those things, it's just that terminals don't]

-Miles
-- 
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it
has to be us.  -- Jerry Garcia

Re: [Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Marcus Brinkmann]

On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 12:42:46PM +0900, Miles Bader wrote:
> Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:
> > Is there interest in supporting alternative (italics, bold)
> > faces for font lock mode in emacs, and would it be easy for you to add it?
> 
> I think it would be very easy to add to emacs.
> 
> [though I'm not sure why the reference to font-lock -- font-lock
> naturally already supports those things, it's just that terminals don't]

Yeah, I am sorry, that sentence was never spelled out in its entirety.  It
should say: "supporting alternative (italics, bold) faces for font lock mode
in the term bottom handler of emacs", ie the part that translates abstract
descriptions to actual terminal escape sequences to produce the corresponding
face.

I am not familiar with the internals of emacs, though, so all I can do is
describe the outside of the process, and pick it up in the console
implementation where emacs emits sitm,ritm and other new escape sequences.

Thanks,
Marcus

-- 
`Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU      http://www.gnu.org    marcus@gnu.org
Marcus Brinkmann              The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/
Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de
http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/

Re: [Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Miles Bader]

Marcus Brinkmann <Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de> writes:
> Yeah, I am sorry, that sentence was never spelled out in its entirety.  It
> should say: "supporting alternative (italics, bold) faces for font lock mode
> in the term bottom handler of emacs", ie the part that translates abstract
> descriptions to actual terminal escape sequences to produce the corresponding
> face.

Right, that part's simple.

One problem is that emacs allows faces to have `device dependent'
definitions, for cases where the most general definition isn't emulated
well.  A fair number of emacs' standard faces have `tty-specific'
definitions, and some of these might assume that ttys never have italic
(bold's probably not a problem, since ttys already sort-of support bold
via intensity).

I recently added capability-testing support (the `supports' clause) to
the face code so any faces that make that assumption about ttys could be
changed to directly test for italic support instead.

[In general I think the above isn't really a problem, since most
`tty-dependent' face definitions actually care about the color depth
(though this is another thing that should be changed to use a
capability-testing model instead).]

-Miles
-- 
97% of everything is grunge

Re: [Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Marcus Brinkmann]

On Tue, Sep 10, 2002 at 11:05:02PM -0400, Richard Stallman wrote:
> Is there any chance you could work on this?
> Since you wrote the tty color stuff, this would probably
> be easier for you than for anyone else.

I have now added the following capabilities to the Hurd console:

# Enable (disable) italic mode.
        sitm=\E[3m, ritm=\E[23m,
# Enable (disable) real bold (not intensity bright) mode.  This is a
# GNU extension.
        gsbom=\EQ, grbom=\ER,

The sitm/ritm is ECMA-48 compatible.  The GNU extension was made up by me,
following the common pattern for set/reset mode (sXYm/rXYm), with a "g"
prefix to mark it as a GNU extension.  The escape sequences they are mapped to
(\EQ/\ER) are marked for private use by ECMA-48.

I will submit this to the ncurses people when I have finished the console (I
am still tweaking the hurd.ti when adding new features etc).

BTW, ECMA-48 also defines an escape sequence to select one of 10 fonts. 
However, I am happy to have one usable unicode font, there is no
terminal capability name for that ECMA capability, and there are no standard
meanings for the font numbers, so it is probably not something worth
implementing.  However, we might keep it in mind for the future.

Thanks,
Marcus

-- 
`Rhubarb is no Egyptian god.' GNU      http://www.gnu.org    marcus@gnu.org
Marcus Brinkmann              The Hurd http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/
Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de
http://www.marcus-brinkmann.de/

Re: [Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Richard Stallman]

Eli, are you interested in implementing tty fonts?

Re: [Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 15:27:08 -0400
> 
> Eli, are you interested in implementing tty fonts?

I'm interested, but I don't think I'll have time to do that any time
soon.

I agree with Miles that adding this is very easy.

Re: [Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Miles Bader]

"Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@is.elta.co.il> writes:
> I'm interested, but I don't think I'll have time to do that any time
> soon.

I'll do it then.

-Miles
-- 
.Numeric stability is probably not all that important when you're guessing.

Re: [Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Eli Zaretskii]

On 19 Sep 2002, Miles Bader wrote:

> "Eli Zaretskii" <eliz@is.elta.co.il> writes:
> > I'm interested, but I don't think I'll have time to do that any time
> > soon.
> 
> I'll do it then.

Thanks!

Re: [Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de: fonts on terminal?]

[Richard Stallman]

    I'm interested, but I don't think I'll have time to do that any time
    soon.

    I agree with Miles that adding this is very easy.

I think it will be easy for you, but not as easy for others.