How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Jürgen Hartmann]

The options offered by Ispell in the buffer *Choices* are associated with
characters--actually keys--that can be entered to select the respective
option. If there are not too many options, digits and letters are sufficient
to identify any of them. But from time to time it happens that there are

If there are many options, digits and letters are not sufficient to identify
each of them. In that case ispell (more precisely the function
ispell-command-loop) also uses characters as ^? and \200.

The following example shows such a situation: These are the options presented
in the buffer *Choices* after doing a ispell-complete-word on "Abf" using
Hunspell together with a German alternate dictionary.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
(0) Abfälle  (1) Abfällen  (2) Abfahrt  (3) Abfahrten  (4) Abfahrtshänge
(5) Abfahrtshängen  (6) Abfahrtshang  (7) Abfahrtsläufer
(8) Abfahrtsläuferin  (9) Abfahrtsläuferinnen  (:) Abfahrtsläufern
(;) Abfahrtsrennen  (<) Abfahrtsstelle  (=) Abfahrtsstellen
(>) Abfahrtsstrecke  (@) Abfahrtsstrecken  (B) Abfall  (C) Abfalls
(D) Abfallaufbereitung  (E) Abfalleimer  (F) Abfalleimern
(G) Abfallgraben  (H) Abfallkurve  (I) Abfallkurven  (J) Abfallpapier
(K) Abfallpapiers  (L) Abfallprodukt  (M) Abfallprodukten
(N) Abfallprodukts  (O) Abfallproduktes  (P) Abfallstoffe
(Q) Abfallstoffen  (S) Abfangjäger  (T) Abfangjägern  (U) Abfangjägers
(V) Abfangrakete  (W) Abfangraketen  (Y) Abfassung  (Z) Abfassungen
([) Abfertigung  (\) Abfertigungen  (]) Abfertigungsschalter
(^) Abfertigungsschaltern  (_) Abfertigungsschalters
(`) Abfertigungsstelle  (b) Abfertigungsstellen  (c) Abfindung
(d) Abfindungen  (e) Abflachung  (f) Abflachungen  (g) Abflüge
(h) Abflügen  (j) Abflüsse  (k) Abflüssen  (n) Abflug  (o) Abflugs
(p) Abflugflughafen  (s) Abflugland  (t) Abfluß  (v) Abflusses
(w) Abfördermenge  (y) Abfördermengen  (z) Abfolge  ({) Abfolgen
(|) Abfragesprache  (}) Abfragesprachen  (~) Abführmittel
(^?) Abführmitteln  (\200) Abführmittels  (\201) Abführung
(\202) Abfüllanlage  (\203) Abfüllanlagen  (\204) Abfüllfiliale
(\205) Abfüllfilialen  (\206) Abfüllstation  (\207) Abfüllstationen
(\210) Abfuhr  (\211) Abfuhren
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now the question: How do I enter ^? or \200 in this situation?

I gave C-x 8 RET which is bound to insert-char a try, but C-x was ignored and
pressing 8 lead to the selection of Option (8).

NB: ispell-command-loop uses read-key to read the users choice.

Is there some kind of input method or key-map that allows to enter such
characters (or keys) in this case?

Juergen

 		 	   		  

Re: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Jürgen Hartmann <juergen_hartmann_@hotmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:34:15 +0200
> 
> (^?) Abführmitteln  (\200) Abführmittels  (\201) Abführung
> (\202) Abfüllanlage  (\203) Abfüllanlagen  (\204) Abfüllfiliale
> (\205) Abfüllfilialen  (\206) Abfüllstation  (\207) Abfüllstationen
> (\210) Abfuhr  (\211) Abfuhren
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Now the question: How do I enter ^? or \200 in this situation?

^? with C-q and \200 with "C-x 8 RET 80 RET".  But see below.

> I gave C-x 8 RET which is bound to insert-char a try, but C-x was ignored and
> pressing 8 lead to the selection of Option (8).
> 
> NB: ispell-command-loop uses read-key to read the users choice.
> 
> Is there some kind of input method or key-map that allows to enter such
> characters (or keys) in this case?

Please report this as a bug.  Ispell should offer printable
characters, not control characters.  E.g., instead of \200, it should
use ä or some such.

Re: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Emanuel Berg]

Jürgen Hartmann <juergen_hartmann_@hotmail.com>
writes:

> (0) Abfälle  (1) Abfällen  (2) Abfahrt  (3) Abfahrten 
> (4) Abfahrtshänge (5) Abfahrtshängen  (6)
> Abfahrtshang  (7) Abfahrtsläufer (8) Abfahrtsläuferin 
> (9) Abfahrtsläuferinnen  (:) Abfahrtsläufern (;)
> Abfahrtsrennen  (<) Abfahrtsstelle  (=)
> Abfahrtsstellen (>) Abfahrtsstrecke  (@)
> Abfahrtsstrecken  (B) Abfall  (C) Abfalls (D)
> Abfallaufbereitung  (E) Abfalleimer  (F) Abfalleimern
> (G) Abfallgraben  (H) Abfallkurve  (I) Abfallkurven 
> (J) Abfallpapier (K) Abfallpapiers  (L) Abfallprodukt 
> (M) Abfallprodukten (N) Abfallprodukts  (O)
> Abfallproduktes  (P) Abfallstoffe (Q) Abfallstoffen 
> (S) Abfangjäger  (T) Abfangjägern  (U) Abfangjägers
> (V) Abfangrakete  (W) Abfangraketen  (Y) Abfassung 
> (Z) Abfassungen ([) Abfertigung  (\) Abfertigungen 
> (]) Abfertigungsschalter (^) Abfertigungsschaltern 
> (_) Abfertigungsschalters (`) Abfertigungsstelle  (b)
> Abfertigungsstellen  (c) Abfindung (d) Abfindungen 
> (e) Abflachung  (f) Abflachungen  (g) Abflüge (h)
> Abflügen  (j) Abflüsse  (k) Abflüssen  (n) Abflug  (o)
> Abflugs (p) Abflugflughafen  (s) Abflugland  (t)
> Abfluß  (v) Abflusses (w) Abfördermenge  (y)
> Abfördermengen  (z) Abfolge  ({) Abfolgen (|)
> Abfragesprache  (}) Abfragesprachen  (~) Abführmittel
> (^?) Abführmitteln  (\200) Abführmittels  (\201)
> Abführung (\202) Abfüllanlage  (\203) Abfüllanlagen 
> (\204) Abfüllfiliale (\205) Abfüllfilialen  (\206)
> Abfüllstation  (\207) Abfüllstationen (\210) Abfuhr 
> (\211) Abfuhren

(re-search-forward "^Question:")

Wow! You sure get many suggestions when making
mistakes in German!

To (not) answer your question: I don't know.

But I thought I'd share my ispell setup since it isn't
often I run into another user. I am Swedish so I use
the american-insane as well as the Swedish spellcheck.
I have that `C-o e' for "spell-english" (see the file)
and `C-o s' for ditto Swedish.

It has some DWIM features and calls different
functions depending on region, mode (e.g.,
message-mode, programming, etc.) - or that's the
thought. But it works nine times out of then:

    http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/emacs-init/spell.el

Question: Is there anyone who succeeded or saw
a solution that had the selection keys changed -
I don't want to reach for the number keys, I want the
first suggestion to be (a), then (s), (d), and (f),
and/or likewise instantly available keys. It shouldn't
be in alphabetic or numerical order (IMHO) it should
be in the order of closeness which is a function of
where they keys are on the keyboard. This is one of
very, very few things I didn't succeed in getting the
way I want with all of Emacs, Gnus, w3m etc. so if
anyone has a solution I would readily let go of
"100" of my hard-earned reputation.
No fingers crossed!

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

RE: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Jürgen Hartmann]

Thank you Eli Zaretskii for your rapid answer:

>> Now the question: How do I enter ^? or \200 in this situation?
>
> ^? with C-q and \200 with "C-x 8 RET 80 RET".  But see below.

Unfortunately this doesn't work.

Since ispell-command-loop uses the function read-key to get the users answer,
it is not straight forward to use

   C-q

or

   C-x 8 RET

sequences: C-q is instantaneously read as ^q and C-x as ^x. Both are
discarded immediately by ispell-command-loop as wrong input, so they can not
be used to build sequences.

> Please report this as a bug.  Ispell should offer printable
> characters, not control characters.  E.g., instead of \200, it should
> use ä or some such.

I will do this.

Of course one might ask whether it is useful to offer such a mass of options.
Maybe it would be enough to limit their number.

But however: Is there a method--some translation keymaps or
something alike--that allows to enter a key code numerically to read-key?

Juergen

 		 	   		  

Re: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Emanuel Berg]

Jürgen Hartmann <juergen_hartmann_@hotmail.com>
writes:

> But however: Is there a method--some translation
> keymaps or something alike--that allows to enter
> a key code numerically to read-key?

Try this:

    (push ?\200 unread-command-events)

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

RE: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Jürgen Hartmann]

Thank you Emanuel Berg for your answer:

> Wow! You sure get many suggestions when making
> mistakes in German!

That's because in principle you can compose any number of nouns to a valid
German word. But fortunately Hunspell limits its suggestions to a reasonable
selection.

The example I showed is an extreme case, as it was taken from a word
completion (ispell-complete-word) not from a spell check.

But it leads to the question how to enter such keystrokes.

> To (not) answer your question: I don't know.
>
> But I thought I'd share my ispell setup since it isn't
> often I run into another user. I am Swedish so I use
> the american-insane as well as the Swedish spellcheck.
> I have that `C-o e' for "spell-english" (see the file)
> and `C-o s' for ditto Swedish.

Thank you very much!

That's what I stumble over regularly too: Always the wrong
dictionary is selected.

> It has some DWIM features and calls different
> functions depending on region, mode (e.g.,
> message-mode, programming, etc.) - or that's the
> thought. But it works nine times out of then:
>
>     http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573/conf/emacs-init/spell.el

There are very nice ideas in your setup: I have bound ispell-message,
ispell-comments-and-strings and friends individually to some keys that I
can't remember when i need them. So I think your DWIM attempt is a very
helpful thing.

> Question: Is there anyone who succeeded or saw
> a solution that had the selection keys changed -
> I don't want to reach for the number keys, I want the
> first suggestion to be (a), then (s), (d), and (f),
> and/or likewise instantly available keys. It shouldn't
> be in alphabetic or numerical order (IMHO) it should
> be in the order of closeness which is a function of
> where they keys are on the keyboard. This is one of
> very, very few things I didn't succeed in getting the
> way I want with all of Emacs, Gnus, w3m etc. so if
> anyone has a solution I would readily let go of
> "100" of my hard-earned reputation.
> No fingers crossed!

As far as I see from the definition of ispell-command-loop, it just assigns
the characters (!) starting from digit 0 upward, skipping the characters that
are used for the fixed commands like <SPC>, i, x, X, q and the like.

I think it should instead be possible to choose them out of a list that holds
them in any desired order. But I never saw something like that realized.

Juergen

 		 	   		  

[OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2015-06-22, at 00:01, Jürgen Hartmann <juergen_hartmann_@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you Emanuel Berg for your answer:
>
>> Wow! You sure get many suggestions when making
>> mistakes in German!
>
> That's because in principle you can compose any number of nouns to a valid
> German word. [...]

Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinigung ;-)

(a certificate of inability to work, if this is a correct English
translation)

Also, there is one very funny sketch by one of Polish comedians, in
which the guy tells an absurd story, during which he constructs longer
and longer German-ish words.  The last one is composed of about 10 parts
and sounds ridiculous.  (I know too little German to be able to write
them down here, sorry...)

OTOH, Esperanto is even better at making up long, compound words on the
spot, since this is how this language works.  Also, you can basically
turn any Esperanto word - or even a suffix - into a noun or a verb or an
adjective or an adverb.  For instance, the suffix -ar- means "many" (as
in "arbaro", "forest", from "arbo", "tree").  It can itself be turned
into a noun, "aro", meaning "a set" or "a multitude".  It can then be
compounded, for instance, to get "arteorio" - "set theory".  Now that is
fun!

NB: despite of all the fun we make of the German language
(cf. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlATOHGj9EY), I really like it.
(Also, before anyone gets offended: I have nothing against joking about
my language, or my compatriots, or my fellow Catholics, provided that
the joke is good.  AFAIK, most jokes about Poles are rather poor, but
there might be exceptions; OTOH, I know quite a lot of good jokes about
Catholics.)

> Juergen

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

RE: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Jürgen Hartmann]

@ Emanuel Berg: Thank you for your suggestion:

> Jürgen Hartmann <juergen_hartmann_@hotmail.com>
> writes:
>
>> But however: Is there a method--some translation
>> keymaps or something alike--that allows to enter
>> a key code numerically to read-key?
>
> Try this:
>
>     (push ?\200 unread-command-events)

Good idea.

But I didn't succeed to apply it.

As a mockup for the situation in ispell-command-loop I defined

   (defun test ()
     ""
     (dotimes (i 10)
       (let ((key (read-key)))
         (message "Key: %s" key))))

which does read-key ten times and outputs the keys read in messages.

But running this function I can not issue the push expression. Even if I
define it as a command and bind it to a key, only that key is read verbatim
like C-f5.

Seems to be a teaser.

Thank you again for your input.

Juergen

 		 	   		  

Re: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Emanuel Berg]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinigung ;-)
>
> (a certificate of inability to work

Are you sure that is a *German* word?

:)

> NB: despite of all the fun we make of the German
> language (cf.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlATOHGj9EY),
> I really like it. (Also, before anyone gets
> offended: I have nothing against joking about my
> language, or my compatriots, or my fellow Catholics,
> provided that the joke is good. AFAIK, most jokes
> about Poles are rather poor

How about: When do you drink your last milk in Poland?
... The day the cow sit down.

    *ouch*

Or: What do Polish women get after they marry, which
is long and often difficult to handle? ...
A family name.

    XHA XHA XHA XHA!

If you read the autobio of Steve Wozniak, which
I think is this:

    @book{iwoz,
      title      = {iWoz},
      author     = {Steve Wozniak},
      publisher  = {Norton \& Company},
      year       = 2006,
      ISBN       = 0393061434
    }

you get many such jokes. Woz had not-that-distant
roots in Poland. When he was into the phreak scene he
put up a telephone "service" to which you could call
for Polish jokes. The thing got so popular eventually
the US-Polish association called him and asked him to
drop it as it put their country in bad light. Woz then
asked if it was OK if he just replaced Poland for
Italy. That, they said, would be OK.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

RE: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Jürgen Hartmann]

Thank you Marcin Borkowski for your cheering contribution:

> Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinigung ;-)
>
> ... a certificate of inability to work ...

Indeed: This word is in active and daily use (fortunately not in mine).

As a standard example for the German composing scheme, the perfectly valid
German word

   Donau­Dampfschifffahrts-Gesellschafts­Kapitänskajüten­Schlüsselloch

although being somehow artificial became famous.

It is taken from German Wikipedia
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapit%C3%A4n
and means "keyhole of the captain's cabin of the Donau steam shipping society".

And yes, there is a rule to use a dash between groups of tree words maximum
used in such a composition.

> (... as
> in "arbaro", "forest", from "arbo", "tree").  It can itself be turned
> into a noun, "aro", meaning "a set" or "a multitude".  It can then be
> compounded, for instance, to get "arteorio" - "set theory".  Now that is
> fun!

So one can use "arteoriaro" for a set of set theories? (Just to get the
feeling.)

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlATOHGj9EY

ROFL! The example words are perfectly chosen: From the video one might get
the impression that the reason why Hunspell gives you so many alternatives
for German spellings is not diversity, but urgency.

(Being by far OT, I fortunately managed to use the word "Hunspell".)

Juergen

 		 	   		  

Re: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Emanuel Berg]

Jürgen Hartmann <juergen_hartmann_@hotmail.com>
writes:

>> Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinigung ;-) ...
>> a certificate of inability to work ...
>
> Indeed: This word is in active and daily use
> (fortunately not in mine).
>
> As a standard example for the German composing
> scheme, the perfectly valid German word

Yeah, I think the attempted humor was the notion of
Germans as well-organized workaholics. But it is
actually the UK people who are that. They just hide it
by being relaxed and polite at the same time as
working. Well, hell - you know what Mr. Bush says:
"You can't fool everyone, but you can fool some, and
those are the ones you should focus on."

Time to s1e3p...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

Re: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2015-06-22, at 02:16, Jürgen Hartmann <juergen_hartmann_@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you Marcin Borkowski for your cheering contribution:
>
>> Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinigung ;-)
>>
>> ... a certificate of inability to work ...
>
> Indeed: This word is in active and daily use (fortunately not in mine).
>
> As a standard example for the German composing scheme, the perfectly valid
> German word
>
>  Donau­Dampfschifffahrts-Gesellschafts­Kapitänskajüten­Schlüsselloch
>
> although being somehow artificial became famous.
>
> It is taken from German Wikipedia
> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapit%C3%A4n
> and means "keyhole of the captain's cabin of the Donau steam shipping society".

Am I right that under the "old" rules, there should be a double "f", not
a triple one?

> And yes, there is a rule to use a dash between groups of tree words maximum
> used in such a composition.
>
>> (... as
>> in "arbaro", "forest", from "arbo", "tree"). It can itself be turned
>> into a noun, "aro", meaning "a set" or "a multitude". It can then be
>> compounded, for instance, to get "arteorio" - "set theory". Now that is
>> fun!
>
> So one can use "arteoriaro" for a set of set theories? (Just to get the
> feeling.)

I haven't been using Esperanto actively for more than two decades now,
so I'm no authority, but my guess is: probably yes, though it might
sound a bit strange or jocular - but from grammar point of view it's
perfectly valid.  (In Esperanto, there is no such thing as "non-existent
compound word": if you need it, you make it up, and if it satisfies the
rules, it's fine.)  Most probably, though, an Esperanto-speaking
mathematician would say "aro de arteorioj".

>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlATOHGj9EY
>
> ROFL! The example words are perfectly chosen: From the video one might get
> the impression that the reason why Hunspell gives you so many alternatives
> for German spellings is not diversity, but urgency.

;-)

> (Being by far OT, I fortunately managed to use the word "Hunspell".)
>
> Juergen

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

RE: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Jürgen Hartmann]

Marcin Borkowski wrote:

>>  Donau­Dampfschifffahrts-Gesellschafts­Kapitänskajüten­Schlüsselloch
>>
>> ...
>> and means "keyhole of the captain's cabin of the Donau steam shipping
>> society".
>
> Am I right that under the "old" rules, there should be a double "f", not
> a triple one?

Yes, that's right. You seem to be very familiar with this language--I guess
that there are even many German native speakers that don't remember that.

So with the "new" spelling the word became even longer. They are growing...

> I haven't been using Esperanto actively for more than two decades now,
> so I'm no authority, but my guess is: probably yes, though it might
> sound a bit strange or jocular - but from grammar point of view it's
> perfectly valid.  (In Esperanto, there is no such thing as "non-existent
> compound word": if you need it, you make it up, and if it satisfies the
> rules, it's fine.)  Most probably, though, an Esperanto-speaking
> mathematician would say "aro de arteorioj".

Ah, I see. This phrase is much clearer than the constructed compound

Juergen

 		 	   		  

Re: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Oleh Krehel]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1031 bytes --]

Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> writes:

> Question: Is there anyone who succeeded or saw
> a solution that had the selection keys changed -
> I don't want to reach for the number keys, I want the
> first suggestion to be (a), then (s), (d), and (f),
> and/or likewise instantly available keys. It shouldn't
> be in alphabetic or numerical order (IMHO) it should
> be in the order of closeness which is a function of
> where they keys are on the keyboard. This is one of
> very, very few things I didn't succeed in getting the
> way I want with all of Emacs, Gnus, w3m etc. so if
> anyone has a solution I would readily let go of
> "100" of my hard-earned reputation.
> No fingers crossed!

The selection itself should be possible to achieve with avy.el
(https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/avy.html). It extends to as many
candidates as you can fit on a screen, and the decision chars are
composed of a user-defined set, e.g. "a", "s", "d", "fa", "fs", "fd".

A screenshot of using `avy-goto-word-0' on a buffer of German words:


[-- Attachment #2: avy-ispell.png --]
[-- Type: image/png, Size: 90327 bytes --]

[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 970 bytes --]


Here, to jump to e.g. "Abführmittel", a user can press "kj". In this
case, the dictionary is "[asdfghjkl]" - the full home row. In case the
dictionary is "[a-zA-Z]", it's likely that most candidates can be
selected with just one char, just like with `ispell' currently.

To make `avy' work with `ispell', only two steps are necessary:

1. Make `ispell' put its candidates in a buffer.
2. Call `avy-goto-word-0' and pass the selected word back to `ispell'.

Here's a crude (but working) implementation:

(defun ispell-command-loop (miss guess word start end)
  (let ((wnd (selected-window)))
    (pop-to-buffer "*avy-ispell*")
    (erase-buffer)
    (insert (mapconcat #'identity miss " "))
    (setq truncate-lines nil)
    (avy-goto-word-0 nil)
    (let ((selected (thing-at-point 'word)))
      (select-window wnd)
      selected)))

Maybe someone interested and more knowledgeable about ispell.el could
refine this implementation.

Oleh

Re: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2015-06-22, at 12:20, Jürgen Hartmann <juergen_hartmann_@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Marcin Borkowski wrote:
>
>>> Donau­Dampfschifffahrts-Gesellschafts­Kapitänskajüten­Schlüsselloch
>>>
>>> ...
>>> and means "keyhole of the captain's cabin of the Donau steam shipping
>>> society".
>>
>> Am I right that under the "old" rules, there should be a double "f", not
>> a triple one?
>
> Yes, that's right. You seem to be very familiar with this language--I guess
> that there are even many German native speakers that don't remember that.

Not really.  I learned German in the period 1992-1998, with varying
levels of diligence, and do not remember very much...

> So with the "new" spelling the word became even longer. They are growing...

;-)

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2015-06-22, at 01:25, Emanuel Berg <embe8573@student.uu.se> wrote:

> How about: When do you drink your last milk in Poland?
> ... The day the cow sit down.
>
>     *ouch*

Meh.

> Or: What do Polish women get after they marry, which
> is long and often difficult to handle? ...
> A family name.
>
>     XHA XHA XHA XHA!

This one is a bit better (mainly because of the language component).

I like language-based jokes a lot.  (How about this: a female student of
humanities ask her female friend studying CS about dating prospects at
her faculty.  The answer?  "The odds are good, but the goods are
odd.";-))

> If you read the autobio of Steve Wozniak, which
> I think is this:
>
>     @book{iwoz,
>       title      = {iWoz},
>       author     = {Steve Wozniak},
>       publisher  = {Norton \& Company},
>       year       = 2006,
>       ISBN       = 0393061434
>     }
>
> you get many such jokes. Woz had not-that-distant
> roots in Poland. When he was into the phreak scene he
> put up a telephone "service" to which you could call
> for Polish jokes. The thing got so popular eventually
> the US-Polish association called him and asked him to
> drop it as it put their country in bad light. Woz then
> asked if it was OK if he just replaced Poland for
> Italy. That, they said, would be OK.

And that -- by far -- is the best one in your email!!!

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science
Adam Mickiewicz University

Re: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Emanuel Berg]

Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> writes:

> I like language-based jokes a lot. (How about this:
> a female student of humanities ask her female friend
> studying CS about dating prospects at her faculty.
> The answer? "The odds are good, but the goods are
> odd." ;-))

I understand the pun but not the joke. That must be
a white-collar CS joke. Us blue-collar hackers don't
understand Haskell, UML, AJAX, microkernels and so on
either. As for puns, how about this:

    There are two tools watching TV.
    One saw.

:)

>> Woz had not-that-distant roots in Poland. When he
>> was into the phreak scene he put up a telephone
>> "service" to which you could call for Polish jokes.
>> The thing got so popular eventually the US-Polish
>> association called him and asked him to drop it as
>> it put their country in bad light. Woz then asked
>> if it was OK if he just replaced Poland for Italy.
>> That, they said, would be OK.
>
> And that -- by far -- is the best one in your
> email!!!

It is always like that. You remember those Donald Duck
technicolor from the 30s, 40s, and 50s? I once had
a friend who had those on a DVD. When we started to
watch first thing was some guy from Disney saying
"back then, people weren't as politically aware as
now..." (~) blaha blaha. And sure enough, there was
plenty of "insensitive" jokes on nationalities and
ethnic groups: Native Americans, Asian people, and so
on, typically those who are easy to make fun of and
make caricatures out of.

If anyone is actually offended but such jokes is
another matter.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

RE: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Jürgen Hartmann]

Emanuel Berg wrote:

>>> Arbeitsunfähigkeitsbescheinigung ;-) ...
>>> a certificate of inability to work ...
>>
>> Indeed: This word is in active and daily use
>> (fortunately not in mine).
>>
>> As a standard example for the German composing
>> scheme, the perfectly valid German word
>  
> Yeah, I think the attempted humor was the notion of
> Germans as well-organized workaholics.

Oh, I see.   :-)

> But it is
> actually the UK people who are that. They just hide it
> by being relaxed and polite at the same time as
> working.

In the region of Germany where I come from, being relaxed and polite and to
work mutually exclude each other. If anybody seems to combine all tree of
them, nobody will trust him any more.

> Well, hell - you know what Mr. Bush says:
> "You can't fool everyone, but you can fool some, and
> those are the ones you should focus on."

And he did, did he?

Juergen

 		 	   		  

RE: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Jürgen Hartmann]

Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> I like language-based jokes a lot.  (How about this: a female student of
> humanities ask her female friend studying CS about dating prospects at
> her faculty.  The answer?  "The odds are good, but the goods are
> odd.";-))

LOL! Nice pun.

An IMHO also admirable genre of language-based humor (not quite jokes) is
that of shaking rhymes--I don't know whether this is the right term for them:
related lines of these rhymes contain phrases whose syllables or just single
letters are swapped like in spoonerisms. Example:

   From rose to rose they flutter by,
   hummingbird and butterfly.

or

   He couldn't find a parking space,
   and this reduced his sparking pace.

(Both found on http://schuettelreime.at.)

And they cannot be translated. Try!

Juergen

 		 	   		  

RE: [OT] Long words (was: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*)

[Jürgen Hartmann]

Emanuel Berg  wrote:

>> I like language-based jokes a lot. (How about this:
>> a female student of humanities ask her female friend
>> studying CS about dating prospects at her faculty.
>> The answer? "The odds are good, but the goods are
>> odd." ;-))
>
> I understand the pun but not the joke.

That's odd.
(SCNR.)

> That must be
> a white-collar CS joke.

Don't let this unsettle you: It says that the CS people are the good guys...
(*duck and run*)

> Us blue-collar hackers don't
> understand Haskell, UML, AJAX, microkernels and so on
> either. As for puns, how about this:
>
>     There are two tools watching TV.
>     One saw.
>
> :)

Hehe, yet a good one.

> If anyone is actually offended but such jokes is
> another matter.

If the motivation of the joke is pure humor and if this is obvious to
anybody, there should be no problem, IMHO. But of course things become
difficult if there might be any disparaging aspect in the jokes mechanism.

Juergen

 		 	   		  

RE: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Jürgen Hartmann]

Emanuel Berg wrote:

> Question: Is there anyone who succeeded or saw
> a solution that had the selection keys changed -
> I don't want to reach for the number keys, I want the
> first suggestion to be (a), then (s), (d), and (f),
> and/or likewise instantly available keys. It shouldn't
> be in alphabetic or numerical order (IMHO) it should
> be in the order of closeness which is a function of
> where they keys are on the keyboard.

I posted a workaround for my problem in

   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2015-06/msg00981.html

as an answer to my bug report. It might also help in your case, since it
allows to customize the option keys and their order that Ispell's command
loop uses--at least it is supposed to.

Juergen

 		 	   		  

RE: How to enter for example \200 offered by ispell in its buffer *Choices*

[Jürgen Hartmann]

Thank you Oleh Krehel for your suggestion:

> The selection itself should be possible to achieve with avy.el
> (https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/avy.html). It extends to as many
> candidates as you can fit on a screen, and the decision chars are
> composed of a user-defined set, e.g. "a", "s", "d", "fa", "fs", "fd".

The package avy.el seems to provide the tools for a very professional
solution for such kind of issues.

> In case the
> dictionary is "[a-zA-Z]", it's likely that most candidates can be
> selected with just one char, just like with `ispell' currently.

I don't think that short key sequences would be a big obstacle here. After
all, they are easier to perform than C-M-AltGr-something-else-<single key>,
which would be the necessary if one tries to map many options to a rather
limited number of single keys. So this also pleads for avy.el.

> Here's a crude (but working) implementation:
>
> (defun ispell-command-loop (miss guess word start end)
> (let ((wnd (selected-window)))
> (pop-to-buffer "*avy-ispell*")
> (erase-buffer)
> (insert (mapconcat #'identity miss " "))
> (setq truncate-lines nil)
> (avy-goto-word-0 nil)
> (let ((selected (thing-at-point 'word)))
> (select-window wnd)
> selected)))

Good enough to show the principle.

> Maybe someone interested and more knowledgeable about ispell.el could
> refine this implementation.

That would be great. Unfortunately I am not able to do that myself, but I
have posted a crude workaround for the issues at hand in

   http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2015-06/msg00981.html

that is by far not so professional as an avy.el solution would be.

Juergen