From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Vincent =?UTF-8?Q?Bela=C3=AFche?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs,gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.bugs Subject: bug#18308: 24.4.50; Info viewer cannot follow menu entry for '(texinfo) @- @hyphenation' Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:44:08 +0200 Message-ID: References: , <201409012153.s81LrtTi021549@freefriends.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1409694329 23383 80.91.229.3 (2 Sep 2014 21:45:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 21:45:29 +0000 (UTC) To: Karl Berry , "18308@debbugs.gnu.org" <18308@debbugs.gnu.org>, "bug-texinfo@gnu.org" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 02 23:45:19 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XOvt8-0000jW-0c for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 23:45:18 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40314 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XOvt7-0004te-M5 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:45:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59031) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XOvsy-0004lY-3L for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:45:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XOvss-00048l-OM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:45:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:37368) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XOvss-00046f-LQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:45:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XOvsr-0003Il-PY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:45:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Vincent =?UTF-8?Q?Bela=C3=AFche?= Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:45:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 18308 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 18308-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B18308.140969426112614 (code B ref 18308); Tue, 02 Sep 2014 21:45:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 18308) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Sep 2014 21:44:21 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57162 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XOvsC-0003HM-9Z for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:44:20 -0400 Original-Received: from dub004-omc3s31.hotmail.com ([157.55.2.40]:55325) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XOvs7-0003H6-0J for 18308@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:44:18 -0400 Original-Received: from DUB109-W9 ([157.55.2.8]) by DUB004-OMC3S31.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22724); Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:44:09 -0700 X-TMN: [VgXI4u4IxZ7zMTgeZjIMsoZhynREGWJK] X-Originating-Email: [vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr] Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <201409012153.s81LrtTi021549@freefriends.org> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Sep 2014 21:44:09.0230 (UTC) FILETIME=[06EAB2E0:01CFC6F7] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:92978 gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.bugs:6814 Archived-At: Just to clarify that I was suggesting three completely different things:=0A= =0A= One first thing was better support of internationalization for *Manuals*=2C= in that context I was speaking about node name translation for presentatio= n to user (there should remain a node true name that should remain the same= whatever the translation. Ok=2C sorry if I misunderstood the rationale for= the menu entries.=0A= =0A= One second thing was internationalisation for *DocStrings*=2C in that conte= xt I was suggesting that docstring could contain some link to some manual v= ariable or function description=2C so switching the Help language based on = configured locale would just mean switching to the correct manual translati= on. =0A= =0A= BTW=2C replacing docstring by jump to manual is basically what calc already= does=2C with its "h f" and "h k" commands. However it does it in a languag= e dependent way because it does not use the "position within the node" (cal= l it PWTN) in the command/variable index --- maybe the reason for such an i= mplementation is that when this feature was made available in calc=2C=2C in= fo=A0 was not supporting so well PWTN --- but instead uses only the node po= inter=2C and then seaches some string in the node to find the position.=0A= =0A= One third thing is that even plain docstring format itself is language depe= ndant. Only for that third item I was suggesting that a better format for d= ocstrings would be some sort of texinfo-light (I think that texinfmt.el alr= eady support some lighter texinfo and could be some starting point for addi= ng such a feature).=0A= =0A= So in a nutshell the evolved docstring would contain some header indicating= =0A= - is that legacy format=0A= - is that texinfo-light format=0A= - do we have a pointer to some manual to be used instead when available and= sought for at the configured locale location --- note that the pointer nee= ds only to indentify the manual itself=2C the variable or function name is = already known what you do C-h f or C-h k.=0A= =0A= =A0=A0 Vincent.=0A= =0A= ----------------------------------------=0A= > Date: Mon=2C 1 Sep 2014 21:53:55 +0000=0A= > From: karl@freefriends.org=0A= > To: vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr=3B 18308@debbugs.gnu.org=3B bug-texinfo@gnu.or= g=0A= > Subject: RE: bug#18308: 24.4.50=3B Info viewer cannot follow menu entry f= or '(texinfo) @- @hyphenation'=0A= >=0A= >> use exactly the same>> node names whatever the language=2C so that the= =0A= >> same link can be used=2C and>> when the manual is compiled to multifile= =0A= >> HTML=2C you have the same file>> tree whatever the language.> Seems=0A= >=0A= > Currently the usual practice is that a translated document is just=0A= > another document with some -xx ending in the base name (where xx refers= =0A= > to the language=2C e.g. fr for French).=81=0A= >=0A= > True.=0A= >=0A= > In my opinion an alternative method would be that translated document=0A= > should rather bare exactly the same name but just be in a language=0A= > specific directory named xx=2C with some fall backs to another language= =0A= >=0A= > No question that that is a well-known alternative approach.=0A= >=0A= > * Translated node name: true node name. Some description=0A= > @node true node name=0A= > and the viewer is supposed to show only "Translated node name".=0A= >=0A= > As Gavin says=2C that is not correct. Both parts of the node name are=0A= > intended to be shown. The existing use of this feature is to make short= =0A= > menu item abbreviations=2C e.g.=2C for the sake of completion or just eas= e=0A= > of reading. For example=2C in the Texinfo manual=2C the HTML Cross=0A= > References section has a @menu like this:=0A= >=0A= > @menu=0A= > * Link Basics: HTML Xref Link Basics.=0A= > * Node Expansion: HTML Xref Node Name Expansion.=0A= > ..=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > Whatever such a hypothetical texinfo-light needs to do=2C fine. We should= =0A= > think about that separately. It need not affect what Texinfo does.=0A= > Seems like two very different cases to me. Let's not try to shoehorn=0A= > existing Texinfo features into things that are far outside their intent= =0A= > and practice.=0A= >=0A= > A discussion of such a texinfo-light (not a name I would advocate=2C=0A= > either) should presumably take place on emacs-devel=2C not in a debian bu= g=0A= > for Texinfo.=0A= >=0A= > k=0A= =