From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs Manual topics to remove? Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 09:06:09 -0800 Message-ID: References: <86mzfugwfn.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1142269680 30153 80.91.229.2 (13 Mar 2006 17:08:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 17:08:00 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 13 18:07:59 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FIqV3-0004yp-G0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 18:06:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FIqV2-00024C-Ui for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:06:28 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FIqUq-00023o-B2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:06:16 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FIqUo-00023E-PW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:06:15 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FIqUo-000237-FY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:06:14 -0500 Original-Received: from [148.87.113.118] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1FIqYo-0003hh-H8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:10:22 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id k2DH6AOK031943 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:06:10 -0700 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k2DH6A5v028961 for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:06:10 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id k2DH69L9028953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 13 Mar 2006 10:06:09 -0700 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <86mzfugwfn.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:51561 Archived-At: My 2c - Here are some more candidates for xtras, in addition to those already identified by others: * all mail stuff and all news stuff (including gnus) * all calendar and diary stuff * version contol (maybe) * all language modes: C, Fortran, Tex, Nroff, ASM, ... * running debuggers (GUD) * international stuff * AntiNews * OS-specific stuff (MS Windows, Mac,...), except for basic Unix/GNU-Linux stuff like man and grep (which is not grouped as OS-specific anyway) If space permits, these should not be moved out, but if space is tight for the printed manual, they are candidates. The xtras "manual" needs a name that doesn't just say "extras". It could be as simple as making the main manual "Volume 1" and the extras manual "Volume 2". A brief intro in each (printed) manual should describe (characterize) both manuals. Each manual should include a complete TOC of all topics in both manuals. It would be better to aim for two volumes that are not terribly different in size. In general, the main manual (Volume 1) should include editing that is not mode-specific, how to get help, search, tags, license and reporting info, a master index, and info on all major Emacs (user) objects and concepts (display, frames, windows, buffers, inputting, commands, keys, customization, ...). In general, topics that could be moved to xtras include those that are mode-specific, provide a special service or information, or are less commonly used. We should avoid splitting a topic (e.g. calendar/diary, as was suggested), putting some of its topics in the main manual and others (e.g. advanced) in the xtras manual. It's better to either include all of a large topic or move it all to xtras. The content of each manual should be pretty clearly defined by a set of topics. We should avoid making a division based on intro and advanced aspects of the same topic. I agree with those who mentioned that some way should be found to include the emacs-xtras topics in the main Emacs-manual index, at least in Info. It should be possible to use Info to navigate to all of the topics (including xtras) more or less seamlessly.