From: "Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Subject: RE: Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:18:55 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <DNEMKBNJBGPAOPIJOOICOEGODFAA.drew.adams@oracle.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <uy7xnenf5.fsf@gnu.org>
> Y'know, I don't remember ever doing anything special to get
> ange-ftp to work. IIRC, I picked up vanilla Emacs and immediately
> accessed remote files.
> Maybe I'm forgetting something, but it can't have been too difficult.
What you are forgetting is how long it took until ange-ftp began to
support Windows seamlessly. At some point, we were even distributing
an alternative ftp client, to work around bugs in the Microsoft
version.
Sounds like a good argument for keeping ange-ftp as the Emacs default, until
tramp supports Windows (and other platforms, if appropriate) seamlessly.
That was my point.
> We're always talking about making things easier for newbies
> to use Emacs. Well, if we expect Windows users to pick Emacs up
> and use it out of the box, and if we want them to use Emacs to
> access remote files, and if tramp is the default way to do that
> now, then I suspect we're going to be disappointed in
> our expectations. Many Windows users will never experience
> using Emacs to access remote files - that's my guess. And
> that's too bad - this Emacs feature is much more important than
> most of the minutia we spend time discussing in our attempts
> to make things friendlier for Emacs newbies
> (menus, toolbars, fringe,...).
I doubt that many Windows users even consider a prospect of accessing
remote files.
I think you are wrong about Windows users these days (and perhaps more wrong
tomorrow). Did you read the part about developers at large companies having
a Windows box in their cubicle and using remote (who knows where?) GNU/Linux
boxes for their development? I suspect that is becoming the rule rather than
the exception. Gone are the Solaris boxes in people's cubicles. Here to
stay, at least for a while, are mega-farms of cheap GNU/Linux boxes/blades.
And, at least for now, Windows is the box of choice by companies for
inter-office stuff. Perhaps tomorrow Windows will be replaced by GNU/Linux
on the desktop as well.
Of course, as I mentioned, using a remote GNU/Linux box from Windows does
not necessarily mean using Emacs locally and accessing files remotely.
Depending on the work one does (within Emacs and without), it can in many
cases be more useful to run Emacs remotely (on GNU/Linux), in order to have
Linux commands available on the remote machine within Emacs. On the other
hand, network bandwidth can sometimes argue against using non-nw Emacs
remotely. Different people have different needs in this regard.
But that's not an argument to avoid fixing this feature
on Windows, it's just that I don't think exaggerating its importance
is really required to convince us.
Tramp is an important feature to fix, especially if it is to be the default.
I don't know if I exaggerate its importance. If it were not the default, so
that Emacs 22 acted like 20 and 21 out of the box (ange-ftp), then there
would be no problem.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-04-30 14:18 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 67+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2006-04-24 9:16 Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el Romain Francoise
2006-04-24 11:33 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-24 12:12 ` Romain Francoise
2006-04-24 13:18 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-24 13:33 ` Stefan Monnier
2006-04-24 13:49 ` Romain Francoise
2006-04-24 19:43 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-25 16:48 ` Richard Stallman
2006-04-25 18:10 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-25 18:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2006-04-28 4:11 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-26 3:56 ` Richard Stallman
2006-04-28 4:26 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-28 6:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-28 20:01 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-29 14:26 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-29 16:09 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-29 16:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-29 18:30 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-29 18:57 ` Michael Price
2006-04-29 19:10 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-29 20:47 ` Miles Bader
2006-04-29 21:37 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-29 22:50 ` Miles Bader
2006-04-30 8:23 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-29 21:40 ` David Kastrup
2006-04-29 22:12 ` Drew Adams
2006-04-29 22:49 ` Jason Rumney
2006-04-29 22:58 ` Lennart Borgman
2006-04-30 11:18 ` Oscar Fuentes
2006-04-30 12:13 ` Jason Rumney
2006-04-30 13:03 ` Oscar Fuentes
2006-04-30 17:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-29 23:33 ` Drew Adams
2006-04-30 3:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-30 14:18 ` Drew Adams [this message]
2006-04-30 14:47 ` Michael Price
2006-04-30 16:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-30 16:51 ` Drew Adams
2006-04-30 17:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-30 17:41 ` Drew Adams
2006-04-30 18:06 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-30 18:08 ` Drew Adams
2006-04-30 5:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2006-04-30 14:11 ` Drew Adams
2006-04-30 6:50 ` Tramp & Cygwin (was: Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el) Michael Albinus
2006-04-30 12:12 ` Tramp & Cygwin Jason Rumney
2006-04-30 12:28 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-30 14:10 ` Drew Adams
2006-04-30 14:19 ` Tramp & Cygwin (was: Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el) Drew Adams
2006-04-30 16:11 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-30 16:45 ` Tramp & Cygwin Michael Albinus
2006-04-30 17:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-30 13:04 ` Tramp performance (was: Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el) Michael Albinus
2006-04-30 3:47 ` Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-30 7:00 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-30 16:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-04-28 15:45 ` Richard Stallman
2006-04-28 19:58 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-29 14:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2006-05-01 13:45 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-29 19:09 ` Richard Stallman
2006-04-29 19:55 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-30 3:04 ` Richard Stallman
2006-05-01 13:28 ` Michael Albinus
2006-04-24 17:52 ` Richard Stallman
2006-04-24 19:48 ` Michael Albinus
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