From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Binding a command to the down-event of a toolbar button Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 08:21:08 -0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1143908505 32692 80.91.229.2 (1 Apr 2006 16:21:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 16:21:45 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 01 18:21:43 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FPir5-0005O6-B8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 18:21:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FPir4-0001Kk-Ng for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:21:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FPiqq-0001Ir-Qe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:21:24 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FPiqp-0001I3-4v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:21:24 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FPiqp-0001Hy-0T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:21:23 -0500 Original-Received: from [148.87.113.118] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1FPitT-0001po-6Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:24:07 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.49]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id k31GLKcu028269 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 09:21:20 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw2-141-144-72-216.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.72.216]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id k31GLJQT015487 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2006 09:21:20 -0700 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:52293 Archived-At: > My guess is that many (most?) of the most important Emacs > features were not developed because users asked for them or > because other UIs already had them. They were invented or > discovered by Emacs user-developers (many by you!). Such > stuff is being created everyday, with varying degrees of > usefulness ;-). Actually, as far as GUI features are concerned, AFAIR most of them were added because other GUI programs had them and users expected them. Non-GUI features are another matter. I said "feature", which includes but is not limited to "GUI feature". I mentioned the Emacs mouse behavior as one example (is it GUI or just UI? I don't care). Another is incremental search (GUI or UI?). Emacs was relatively late to the GUI game (at least what most people understand by GUI), so it's probable that there were more user requests to "catch up" in that area. But that's irrelevant; Emacs's superiority was not achieved by playing catch-up, fulfilling user requests to do what other apps do already. Someone might have requested adding a mouse to Emacs, but I doubt if anyone asked for the (superior) mouse behavior that we ended up with. Emacs has the advantage of innovation that comes from many user-developers and, most important, source code. I'm the first to welcome borrowing ideas from other apps. I think there are still some things that Dired could learn from Windows (not Internet) Explorer, for instance. But we can always do better, and lack of user requests for a feature or lack of the feature in other UIs is no argument for not pursuing a feature in Emacs. Those can be arguments in favor of developing a feature, but they are not good arguments against doing so. Cost/benefit and lack of sufficient resources are good arguments.