From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: link appearance and soft face properties Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 09:53:16 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1119286695 6571 80.91.229.2 (20 Jun 2005 16:58:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2005 16:58:15 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 20 18:58:10 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DkPb7-00086z-52 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 18:58:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DkPhN-00084Y-0j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:04:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DkPea-00079s-0O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:01:45 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DkPeM-00074i-5E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:01:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DkPeL-00071H-RP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 13:01:29 -0400 Original-Received: from [148.87.122.32] (helo=rgminet03.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1DkPZ6-000221-NM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:56:04 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet03.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgminet03.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5KGrINh013414 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:53:18 -0600 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by rgminet03.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5KGrHKt013383 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:53:17 -0600 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j5KGrH6s010251 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:53:17 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j5KGrGxA010244 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2005 10:53:16 -0600 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:39181 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:39181 When you use emphasis and bold, you are speaking about two different kinds of markup, logical and physical. Right. I wrote about the separation of "purpose/intention/use from physical formatting", which was my way of characterizing logical vs physical or, as someone else pointed out, semantic vs presentational. But I also mentioned "user-changeable" vs "hard-wired". Admittedly, these are not identical distinctions. However, in this context, I think they are usefully combined: The ":underline" text property is a hard-wired, physical formatting spec. The ":link" text property I was proposing is a user-changeable, logical spec. :link is user-changeable: users can determine what the ultimate appearance is. :link is logical: it represents a purpose/intention/use that is more abstract than that of underlining. What makes it more abstract? The fact that there can be different (physical) manifestations/implementations (regardless of whether or not users can define those physical realizations). So, I don't think it was a distraction to speak of "soft" in this context as combining user-changeable and logical. It's true that "logical" markup can refer simply to markup with different physical manifestations and letting users choose the manifestation by choosing the context, without necessarily letting them choose or define the physical form beyond that. (I won't get into the name vs named distinction that you brought up; I think it adds more heat than light here. Sorry if I wasn't clear, though.) Anyway, as people have pointed out, it appears that face inheritance, not text-property inheritance would be sufficient to realize what I was suggesting.