From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: doc of defining minor modes Date: Thu, 18 May 2006 18:44:10 -0700 Message-ID: References: <85y7wydfmx.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1148003111 25194 80.91.229.2 (19 May 2006 01:45:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 01:45:11 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 19 03:45:04 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fgu2g-0006p4-2x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 19 May 2006 03:44:38 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fgu2f-0004Bu-3l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 May 2006 21:44:37 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fgu2S-0004AH-Se for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2006 21:44:24 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Fgu2Q-00048f-W9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2006 21:44:24 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Fgu2Q-00048b-Qj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2006 21:44:22 -0400 Original-Received: from [148.87.113.118] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1Fgu5d-0006jU-R1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 May 2006 21:47:42 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.49]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id k4J1iILu023762 for ; Thu, 18 May 2006 19:44:18 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id k4J1iH9Z015724 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 18 May 2006 19:44:17 -0600 Original-To: "Emacs-Devel" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <85y7wydfmx.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:54741 Archived-At: OK, I hear the argument as being that a user could be disoriented if a mode is turned on without his/her being aware of it. That makes sense. It is also not clearly expressed in the documentation. As I said, if "you want people to understand and respect [this recommendation], then it should be clarified and justified (explain why) in the doc." I do not think the doc is clear on this at all. The doc should explicitly say that loading a minor mode should not have any user-visible effect, and explain why. The why should mention that it might disorient users (or something to that effect). In particular, it should not speak in terms of "harm" and "pain". No such harm or pain was finally pointed out, so let's not be alarmist about this. It's enough to say that a user might be disoriented to suddenly find that a mode was turned on. And the doc should indicate how that might happen (e.g. Customize loading a library...), so people understand it. The doc should explicitly say that, because of this, :init-value should not be used or should be used only with value nil, except for the corner case described. And that corner case should be described better. Thx.