From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Binding a command to the down-event of a toolbar button Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:03:42 -0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1143759855 8406 80.91.229.2 (30 Mar 2006 23:04:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:04:15 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 31 01:04:12 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FP6BS-0003Nh-7g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:04:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FP6BR-0001Ej-RQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:04:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FP6BG-0001EU-4p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:03:54 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FP6BD-0001E4-E7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:03:52 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FP6BD-0001E1-7B for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:03:51 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1FP6DT-0007dR-L2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:06:11 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.49]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id k2UN3nnY007981 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 17:03:49 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id k2UN3mvo030204 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:03:48 -0700 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:52237 Archived-At: >> Is such behavior normal in tool bars in other user interfaces? >> If not, I think we should not do it. Why not? It's often good to stick to "normal", "standard", or common UI features so that users know what to expect. But what's the harm in providing functionality where the common UIs have none? Users of common UIs won't think to try press-and-hold or mouse-3 on a tool-bar icon, and they won't be shocked by the possibility. I use Emacs's tool-bar as a "control bar", so its behavior doesn't need to be related to what people are usually accumstomed for tool-bars. See http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~monnier/elisp/mpc.png for a snapshot. Looks good to me. BTW - The pause symbol usually has vertical, not horizontal bars. I'd like to be able to also offer the press-and-hold behavior which may be more convenient in other situations. Yes, why not? I think my request for down-events on the tool-bar is related to some other people's requests to be able to bind different actions for mouse-1, mouse-2, mouse-3. Yes, why not? (I was one of the "other people", for the same reason: why not?) Why limit Emacs, even if it is not common for GUIs to use other mouse keys or press-and-hold on tool-bar icons? Tool bars are not all that useful anyway - why not see if Emacs developers and users can improve on this not-so-useful cliche? At one time even menus and mice were crazy experiments. IOW, it wouldn't hurt to open up the feature set here, and allow for some invention. There is nothing sacrosanct about the dominant UIs. If using press-and-hold with a tool bar turns out to be not very useful, that will soon become apparent and that potential feature will remain unused. If it turns out to be useful in some contexts, then we will have gained by allowing the possibility. Think of the Emacs mouse functionality (e.g. mouse-3 to extend selection, mouse-2 to paste). If we respected the "norm" then we would have the same brain-dead mouse as most apps. Emacs can always do better, precisely because it is open to experimentation by users. Let a hundred flowers bloom.