From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: datatypes in Elisp Info: mention "things" for which there is no "thing" datatype - e.g. faces Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 06:58:13 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1119621383 23802 80.91.229.2 (24 Jun 2005 13:56:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 13:56:23 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jun 24 15:56:22 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Dloef-0001NG-9e for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:55:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Dlolh-0003jq-KD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:02:53 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DlokM-00037Y-C2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:01:31 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Dlok8-00030b-NG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:01:20 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Dlok8-0002yD-Gd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:01:16 -0400 Original-Received: from [148.87.122.32] (helo=rgminet03.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1Dlokp-000712-Kh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:01:59 -0400 Original-Received: from rgminet03.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgminet03.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5ODwH1x021087 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:58:17 -0600 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by rgminet03.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5ODwGYp021049 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:58:16 -0600 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j5ODwFuo025693 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:58:15 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-80-138.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.80.138]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j5ODwEol025680 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:58:15 -0600 Original-To: "Emacs-Devel" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:39425 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:39425 > Finally, I'm ignorant: Just why is `face' not treated similarly to > `function' - why isn't `face' a datatype? If the answer > expresses a general > rule, then perhaps that rule should also be included in the > doc, to clarify things. I tend to think of datatypes in lisp as being... Whatever people decide on this should be reflected in the Elisp manual (i.e. it should be updated). Currently, I'm not sure that your POV is reflected there. There are two places where the `function' datatype is discussed, which are linked: 1) Lisp Data Types and 2) Functions, linked through `functionp' at Type Predicates. It's not clear whether the entire discussion at Functions applies to the `function' datatype. In general, perhaps we should be clearer when we are speaking of an "official" datatype and when we are speaking rather more loosely. If Elisp "datatype" does not reflect something objective and operational (e.g. determinable by program), then perhaps we shouldn't speak of "datatype" at all. IOW, perhaps we should either make it clear what constitutes an Elisp datatype, and which "kinds of things" are datatypes, or not speak of Elisp datatypes at all.