From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs unconditionally loads tramp.el Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:51:45 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1146415938 25910 80.91.229.2 (30 Apr 2006 16:52:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:52:18 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 30 18:52:17 2006 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FaF9a-0006Bw-E3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 18:52:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FaF9Z-0002K0-Uf for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:52:13 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FaF9L-0002JD-6G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:51:59 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1FaF9J-0002Ij-Le for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:51:58 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1FaF9J-0002Ig-ED for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:51:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [148.87.113.118] (helo=rgminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.52) id 1FaFCw-0006GN-1I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:55:42 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by rgminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.6/Switch-3.1.6) with ESMTP id k3UGprBK019499 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:51:53 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-80-31.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.80.31]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id k3UGpqlT012924 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2006 10:51:52 -0600 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1807 X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:53672 Archived-At: > Sounds like a good argument for keeping ange-ftp as the Emacs > default, until tramp supports Windows (and other platforms, > if appropriate) seamlessly. But Tramp does work on Windows, at least for me, with plink as the SSH client. Unless others say that plink, too, has problems, which aren't seen on Posix platforms, I don't see why we should advise Windows users to use a different setup. "Seamlessly" is the operative word here. If you're right about how easy it is, then perhaps all that's needed is a clear recipe of instructions. If Michael A. and I are right about how hard it can be, then maybe more work needs to be done. (Also note that ange-ftp is now Tramp's back end, and so fetching by FTP should work as well as it did in previous versions. "Should". We are not discussing FTP methods, I was also discussing FTP. As I said, I believe that I had problems even with Tramp's (ange-) FTP (although it was over a year ago, in a convoluted testing thread with Kai G., so I won't swear by this, as I've forgotten the details). Perhaps Michael can confirm or correct me here about the existence of FTP problems. we are discussing SSH, which is not supported by ange-ftp at all, and so there's no alternative to Tramp there.) That's true. But that doesn't mean that ssh (or sshx) should be the default. If it works well in all important cases (including local Windows to remote GNU/Linux), then that's fine; if it doesn't, then perhaps FTP should still be the default protocol. > I doubt that many Windows users even consider a prospect > of accessing remote files. > > I think you are wrong about Windows users these days (and > perhaps more wrong tomorrow). Did you read the part about > developers at large companies having a Windows box in their > cubicle and using remote (who knows where?) GNU/Linux > boxes for their development? My day job is with a large company, where almost all code developers use Windows as their desktop OS and either Windows or GNU/Linux as the target OS. So I'm speaking from experience, not from theory. Good. So we have similar experience here. In that case, why do you think that few "Windows users even consider a prospect of accessing remote files"? > Tramp is an important feature to fix, especially if it is to > be the default. Please try plink when you have time. It works quite well for me. I will try it again when I have some time. Thx. Maybe that's the solution. (And generally PuTTY is a wonderful package, IMHO. I am using it for several years, and I have yet to see a single serious bug or misfeature. Since I have it installed, I never looked back on the Cygwin ports of ssh.) Can you (or someone else) point to a simple set of instructions for using plink and PuTTY? I still want to use Cygwin's bash shell on Windows for other Emacs stuff, though. Thx.