From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: ELPA and EmacsWiki Updates Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 18:53:59 -0700 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1188784518 18104 80.91.229.12 (3 Sep 2007 01:55:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2007 01:55:18 +0000 (UTC) To: , Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 03 03:55:17 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IS19l-0004jS-DA for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 03 Sep 2007 03:55:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IS19k-0004QG-24 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:55:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IS19R-0004Of-0g for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:54:53 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IS19Q-0004O6-Dl for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:54:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IS19Q-0004Nx-B9 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:54:52 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet01.oracle.com ([141.146.126.228]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IS19P-0000nz-Kw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 21:54:51 -0400 Original-Received: from rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (rgmgw2.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.111]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id l831smlV025832; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 20:54:48 -0500 Original-Received: from acsmt351.oracle.com (acsmt351.oracle.com [141.146.40.151]) by rgmgw2.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.2.4/Switch-3.2.4) with ESMTP id l831QT3F005529; Sun, 2 Sep 2007 19:54:47 -0600 Original-Received: from dhcp-amer-csvpn-gw1-141-144-65-131.vpn.oracle.com by acsmt351.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3177983001188784432; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 18:53:52 -0700 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3138 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Whitelist: TRUE X-Detected-Kernel: Linux 2.4-2.6 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:47125 Archived-At: > Nordl=C3=B6w> I am using a lot of Emacs Extensions from EmacsWiki for=20 > Nordl=C3=B6w> example the brilliant Icicles. Can ELPA or some other > Nordl=C3=B6w> package automatically synchronize/update my copies of > Nordlow> these extensions with some nice Emacs Package? >=20 > There is some other installer on the wiki that might help here. I > don't know, I haven't used it (since it doesn't have the features I > want). >=20 > FWIW, the reason that Icicles is not in ELPA is that the Icicles > author did not want it there. Hmm. That's not quite right, Tom. What I said at the time was that it = seemed (then) that some package system (possibly ELPA) would soon be = added to Emacs, and I was intending to wait to see what Icicles changes = might be needed to adapt it for use with the (future) standard package = system. Now, it looks like there will be no such standard Emacs package system. = Why don't you email me off list to talk again about what I might need to = do to make Icicles Elpable? However, it's also true that I said that (1) I appreciate the simplicity = of uploading to Emacs Wiki, and (2) there are already several ways to = download all of Icicles at once from the wiki (see = http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/Icicles_-_Libraries#BulkIciclesDown= load). I'm not sure what Nordlow needs beyond that, or whether he has = even tried those ways. Anyway, my mind is not closed against ELPA for Icicles (or Icicles for = ELPA). I'm not too clear on what I would need to do - feel free to = contact me about it. Especially if it's just a one-time change, and not = too difficult, it's likely that I will do it. Is there a way for ELPA to get stuff automatically from Emacs Wiki - = that is, stuff that has been made Elpable? That would be a big help. There are already several sites that provide Emacs-Lisp libraries = (including Emacs-Lisp List, Emacs Wiki, and ELPA, not to mention sites = of individual authors and group projects), and there is = gnu-emacs-sources@gnu.org.=20 It would be great if library authors could simply upload to one site and = have the others feed off of that. (Via RSS? I don't know anything about = RSS, so don't laugh if it's irrelevant here.) Emacs Wiki already mirrors = the Emacs-Lisp List, but it would, IMO, be much better the other way = around: it would be good if other sites that are more like simple = repositories fed off of the code posted to the wiki. I prefer Emacs Wiki for its simplicity, including the ability - by = anyone - to easily post or update code and associated documentation. In = particular, the hyperlinking makes it a tremendous resource for everyone = - much better, IMO, than just a check-in/out code repository. The wiki = has no notion of packages, however, so it would be helpful if a package = system such as ELPA could feed off of the wiki somehow. > As for other things not being in ELPA, the general reason for this is > that I probably haven't gotten around to it yet. Smaller (single > file) packages tend to require some comment fixes first, and I'm not > always clear on what people actually use (and what therefore would be > worthwhile to upload). Larger packages often require some extra > preparation. >=20 > And, finally, I like to coordinate with maintainers so that: >=20 > * Any needed patches go upstream > * The package has a "nice" activation approach (autoloads comments in > place, whatever), and > * so that maintainers know to send me new versions when released See my comments above. In my case, I don't make package "releases". I = enhance or fix one library (or more) of the "package" and upload it = immediately to the wiki, without changing anything else in the = "package". I don't repackage, zip, tar, or anything else. I just diff = the old and the new file, write a comment in the new file, and upload it = - without the unchanged rest of the package. On the wiki I can easily = compare previous revisions of a file and roll the current revision back = if necessary. Users can easily see what has changed and download just a = single library change. (They can also download the entire package, if = they want.) I'm not against a package system, depending on what that means, but it = would be ideal, I think, if packages were more or less virtual, updated = automatically whenever a member file is updated on the wiki. Perhaps a = wiki-based package system of some kind would be appropriate? If not, = then it would be good if a standalone package system such as ELPA could = feed itself off of the wiki. > I'm happy to have help with any or all of this :-). If there's enough > demand I'll move the ELPA repository to a site like savannah so that > other folks can do uploads as well. FWIW, I haven't noticed Savannah being anywhere near as simple to use as = Emacs Wiki. No flames from Savannah-ites, please.