From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: mouse-1-click-follows-link Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:08:21 -0700 Message-ID: References: <42AE727F.6020703@student.lu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1118772329 24570 80.91.229.2 (14 Jun 2005 18:05:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:05:29 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 14 20:05:28 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DiFm8-0002rh-1I for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:04:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DiFrA-0006Sh-Nm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:09:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DiFqd-0006HJ-7c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:09:15 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1DiFqa-0006Ft-It for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:09:13 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1DiFqa-0006EV-2e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:09:12 -0400 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.230] (helo=agminet03.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1DiFrB-0004DA-5Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:09:49 -0400 Original-Received: from agminet03.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by agminet03.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5EI8QTN026641 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:08:26 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by agminet03.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5EI8PH8026627 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 13:08:25 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with ESMTP id j5EI8Oma016483 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:08:24 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dhcp-amer-whq-csvpn-gw3-141-144-80-63.vpn.oracle.com [141.144.80.63]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.4/Switch-3.1.0) with SMTP id j5EI8O0e016471 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 12:08:24 -0600 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: <42AE727F.6020703@student.lu.se> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:38824 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:38824 mouse-1-click-follows-link is nicely defined to satisfy everyone, I think. You can turn off mouse-1 link sensitivity completely or activate it on: 1) short (fast) click, 2) long (slow) click, or 3) double-click. Good job. What we've *not* come to agreement on yet: 1) Whether the behavior should always be the same in each buffer or should possibly vary by buffer. If the latter, should this be user-changeable (e.g. local values) or not? 2) What the default value should be. If we allow local values, this means both a) the default global value and b) the default local values for different categories of standard buffers (e.g. those dense with links, like Dired, vs those sparse with links, like Info). Our options include `nil' (mouse-1 doesn't follow links at all), +integer (fast click follows link), -integer (slow click follows link), and `double' (double-click follows link). My opinion: 1. Users should be able to have different behaviors in different buffers, in this regard. 2. The global (default) value should be `nil': mouse-1 should be insensitive to links by default. 3. The default value for buffers that are sparse with hot spots (e.g. Info, Help, Customize) should be 100 ms (fast click follows link). 4. The default value for buffers that are dense with hot spots (e.g. Dired, grep, compilation) and for which users will likely want to set point occasionally should be `double' (double-click follows link). 5. The default value for buffers that are dense with hot spots, but for which users don't need to set point at all (eg. Buffer List) should be 100 ms (fast click follows link). (There are probably few such standard buffers.) 6. Any default values that are set to "fast click follows link" should use a much faster click value than what is currently the default, so users can more easily set point. Most users intending to follow a link will click quite fast, naturally. A value such as 100 ms is better than the current default of 450 ms, which is far too slow. [Please try different values, even if you don't intend to have mouse-1 follow links on single clicks, so we can get a consensus wrt a good value to recommend or use as default in appropriate buffers. Try negative values too, and mention if you prefer slow click follows link to fast click follows link.] 7. Whatever we agree upon, the design should be communicated to users as recommendations for their own buffers of different kinds. If we decide to allow different values in different buffers, we should include, in the mouse-1-click-follows-link doc string, suggested guidelines for using different values with different buffer types. This will encourage relatively consistent use patterns. 8. Users should be able to have full-line hot zones for buffers that are essentially lists of links. This includes grep, compilation, and Dired. RMS has apparently decided to reduce the hot-zone size for grep. I prefer full-line links. It would be good for users to be able to customize this, regardless of the default behavior. IOW, because of the recent move to mouse-1 following links (even potentially), we are now losing full-line links in grep. People accidentally followed links (me too), so the hot zones are now being reduced to alleviate this problem. I don't agree with that solution to the problem, but all I would ask for is a way for users to get back the full-line link behavior. Mouse-1 is extremely customizable now via mouse-1-click-follows-links, but the hot-zone extent is not customizable at all, without rewriting the grep/compile code.