From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:25:37 -0800 Message-ID: References: <200511112049.jABKn9r23432@raven.dms.auburn.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1131744443 12830 80.91.229.2 (11 Nov 2005 21:27:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 21:27:23 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 11 22:27:20 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EagPC-0007Jm-Un for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 22:25:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EagPC-0005PA-DQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EagP1-0005On-IO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:43 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EagOz-0005Mp-RP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EagOz-0005Mm-OP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:41 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1EagOz-0003jX-M5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 16:25:41 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.49]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id jABLbDwr010117 for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 15:37:13 -0600 Original-Received: from rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id jABLPb0V006691 for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:25:38 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw300.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id jABLPbxS006684 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:25:37 -0700 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-reply-to: <200511112049.jABKn9r23432@raven.dms.auburn.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:45776 Archived-At: > The ^L is there so that one could use forward-page to > quickly move to the next group. That's great, but it shouldn't be displayed. If the ^L is not displayed, how do you know that forward-page will move you there? `forward-page' looks for the character ^L (control L, form-feed). Wouldn't Eli's overlay suggestion give a better appearance and still leave the ^L in the buffer for `forward-page' to find and the printer to interpret as a form-feed? More importantly, what the ^L is _really_ there for is to force a page break if the user prints the stuff off. Obviously, it should be displayed as is, because the user printing it off should know that there is going a page break there. I think the display in a buffer can be made independent of what character is actually there. The suggestion was to leave the control-L character there, but display it as, for example, a horizontal line (perhaps with some space before and after it). That would still let the user know that the printer would make a page break (provided the convention were explained, as is also needed to understand that seeing "^L" means a page break). > We could use overlays to display the ^L as something more visually > appealing, while leaving ^L in the buffer. Definitely not, for the reasons above. If there is a ^L in the buffer, the user needs to know that. I don't see those reasons. The user needs to see a section delimiter; that's all. He need not see "^L" (which is just one representation of a form-feed character, anyway). I think what people are saying is that the form-feed character should be kept in the buffer, but it should be displayed as something more user-friendly.