From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:10:16 -0800 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1131736334 21201 80.91.229.2 (11 Nov 2005 19:12:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 19:12:14 +0000 (UTC) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 11 20:12:11 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaeIF-0007Vx-IG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 20:10:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaeIE-0003oJ-Dy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:10:34 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EaeI1-0003ny-Ch for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:10:21 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EaeI0-0003nQ-Gx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:10:20 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaeI0-0003nK-Dg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:10:20 -0500 Original-Received: from [141.146.126.228] (helo=agminet01.oracle.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_3DES_EDE_CBC_SHA:24) (Exim 4.34) id 1EaeI0-0003TM-8R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 14:10:20 -0500 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com [138.1.186.50]) by agminet01.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id jABJLqLW031786 for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 13:21:52 -0600 Original-Received: from rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id jABJAICh014126 for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:10:18 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap (dradams-lap.us.oracle.com [130.35.177.126]) by rgmsgw301.us.oracle.com (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with SMTP id jABJAHCm014119 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 12:10:17 -0700 Original-To: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1506 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAQAAAAI= X-Whitelist: TRUE X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:45762 Archived-At: > > Isn't there a nicer way the groups can be separated? > > We could use overlays to display the ^L as something more visually > appealing, while leaving ^L in the buffer. > > Yes, that's what I was thinking too. The ^L should stay, but > can be made more user-friendly. Here's one more idea for displaying the bindings (it could also be useful for what display-mode shows): put the help buffer into Outline mode and use Outline-style headings instead of the ^L delimiters. Initially, the display could be collapsed so that only the headings are shown; users then could use Outline commands both for movement between groups of bindings and for showing only those groups they are interested in. That might be OK, but I believe Outline mode can be a bit scary for newbies - it's not always immediately clear how to use it. I think the main problem is the extraneous, uninteresting bindings, which you say is a bug. Getting rid of them will be a big help. Beyond that, identifying the sections (e.g. with a horizontal overlay line or something, in place of ^L), and providing links to them near the top, should be sufficient.