From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:45:53 -0400 Message-ID: References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> <746FE961-37C5-4387-8274-7D90908EE2D6@dancol.org> <8734p3219c.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r0cnzpwn.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17283"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Stefan Kangas , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 23 16:46:54 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOUX-0004GM-Hh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 16:46:54 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOTr-00028B-Oz; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:46:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOTo-000279-Ih for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:46:08 -0400 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOTj-0004gW-IW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:46:08 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:CC:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=VVQLsPMEmZ6Klm42UaCN5wleRjGFIv9W2Axpd4UJStU=; b=bS2bomGmCRY7pZSXHIlR8n5T9i E/XMR+tlzGGdhrXVK3+OJyj/af+0wiRUU4dhNIogk9w3ZhyfEfwumQmoR7+Sq68MoUeM2oNjOr5Yb /S6MZbdqXcSy5VMcJ7WwVR3ICSYHsHW5ukLtDQTTFLr3q9yhNEyTRRQTno8sbxI7orPfhTlmo1qkH 4xXEFLlVBQp/sWV94RuaUBoeL0am1UsYQvJwrEk3Bte9SZ8Z36ZeMZm/DhsgfP3hf+9hvTmEr7Ytm Gu2/mo3ThUkAnwO+OIp/NG3slWDig5XGoQL1vCnfnAaH+fdmcP3PWUAU/EZsvv2xjgWmHF4oAfYQm LcZHQI9g==; Original-Received: from 2603-9001-4203-1ab2-44c9-c16c-aa21-95a3.inf6.spectrum.com ([2603:9001:4203:1ab2:44c9:c16c:aa21:95a3]:46456 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1sLOTZ-00054T-T7; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 10:45:54 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87r0cnzpwn.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1; envelope-from=dancol@dancol.org; helo=dancol.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320543 Archived-At: On June 23, 2024 10:37:12 AM EDT, Po Lu wrote: >Daniel Colascione writes: > >> Well, yes? It's of marginal interest because it's not >> discoverable=2E It's nevertheless useful=2E More people would use the >> package if it were discoverable=2E I don't think the logic is terribly >> complicated here=2E > >C-x 4 is more discoverable than is (emacs)Window Convenience? That >is an exceptional statement that calls for exceptional evidence=2E > >> It continues to astound me that people want to put many hours into a >> project yet insist they're indifferent between its success and >> failure=2E > >How does the success or failure of an _Emacs_ package (Doom Emacs) >produce the opposite outcome for Emacs? If anything I would expect it >to be our duty to wish and help them achieve success, and never to treat >them as adversaries=2E > >> I'm waiting for such an example=2E You've bound C-x 4 down to >> something=2E Fine=2E That binding would continue to work if Emacs came >> with C-x 4 already bound to something else=2E That's how defaults >> work=2E Can you please explain the actual problem that providing these >> new default bindings would cause for your workflow? > >The next user who drops by my computer types C-x 4 down and finds >himself staring at an open web browser, Emacs nowhere in sight=2E So you think users should be prevented from changing default keybindings? = That's what the logic of your argument suggests=2E=20 In practice, nobody but me is realistically going to be using my Emacs con= figuration=2E Personal specificity is the essence of personalization=2E Mos= t random people sitting down to an Emacs session anyway are going to try th= ings like C-c to copy and C-v to paste, and these don't work anyway=2E