From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chad Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode (was: Put scroll-bar on right by default on UNIX.) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 16:33:55 -0700 Message-ID: References: <87ocitw2dl.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <201003130001.o2D01FFQ003489@godzilla.ics.uci.edu> <87vdd1yqe4.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87eijjzrkd.fsf_-_@mail.jurta.org> <20100317143519.GB4381@muc.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1268868866 25139 80.91.229.12 (17 Mar 2010 23:34:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:34:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , Chong Yidong , Dan Nicolaescu , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 18 00:34:21 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns2km-0000bo-LP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:34:20 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49718 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ns2km-0005Oj-1J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:34:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Ns2kg-0005Od-3F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:34:14 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=44528 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ns2kZ-0005OB-HJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:34:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns2kW-00061j-IY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:34:07 -0400 Original-Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu ([18.7.68.36]:65262) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ns2kW-00061L-Fa for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:34:04 -0400 X-AuditID: 12074424-b7b9dae000002832-cd-4ba166eb6a1f Original-Received: from mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu (MAILHUB-AUTH-2.MIT.EDU [18.7.62.36]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-7.mit.edu (Symantec Brightmail Gateway) with SMTP id F3.83.10290.BE661AB4; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Original-Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-2.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id o2HNY2Rp025207; Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:34:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [10.0.1.6] (c-98-247-149-76.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [98.247.149.76]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as yandros@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id o2HNXwce021514 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 17 Mar 2010 19:34:00 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <20100317143519.GB4381@muc.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122123 Archived-At: On Mar 17, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > The answer is to ask them why they want this. C-w is easy to type, as = is > . delete-select-mode is such an irritating distraction that = it > should only be enabled for those who really, truly want it.=20 Currently, when you highlight something with the mouse and then type = normal characters, in Emacs: new characters are added at point and the = highlight is removed, while in basically every other editing situation a = user faces, the highlighted text is replaced with the typed characters. = For the vast majority of users, the ``irritating distraction'' is that = emacs ignores their mouse-selection action as if it had no purpose. =20 Honestly, aside from ``you're used to the other way'', what is the = upside of intentionally ignoring the user's efforts? Making the mark = stack slightly easier to operate? You really think that's the way to = optimize for new users? >=20 > We've had this discussion often enough in the past. Do we really have = to > go through these motions yet again? We're planning for a major release. Conversations about things that = might change have included bidi support, lexical binding, threading, = replacing Emacs Lisp with Guile, and replacing the display engine. Not = all of these discussions are going to result in changes to emacs (such = as Alin Soare's suggestion to change the display engine), but when = Richard is suggesting replacing Emacs Lisp with another language, I = think we're in *Exactly* the right time to talk about changing aspects = of the default UI for new users. Thanks, *Chad=