From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Arrow Keys? Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 00:27:26 +0800 Message-ID: References: <791jqsF1otu7cU1@mid.individual.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1244392087 12567 80.91.229.12 (7 Jun 2009 16:28:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 16:28:07 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 07 18:28:05 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MDLE4-0005jg-Ra for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:28:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:44950 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MDLE4-0006Yz-3O for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:28:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MDLDe-0006Yd-6t for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:27:38 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MDLDZ-0006YB-K0 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:27:37 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=32796 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MDLDZ-0006Y8-EL for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:27:33 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:64837) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MDLDZ-0004re-3Y for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 12:27:33 -0400 Original-Received: by pxi27 with SMTP id 27so2438402pxi.14 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 09:27:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:x-mailer; bh=3KNkya5kx7u45yNKQUFKrvj+lwBd75J03mOR92C6kBs=; b=rrZHpUJa2t0ZycuaV7Oax7bWkM1Nh4bmYZhrbZgA694kGIfS3TI3VmBA0UU+cLLE3q ryh7j/Bs4TQjkGePwZqOMaiBegBTkP9pDzBTeGxt3jWE+Ku2eex++KgqGU3k+adioiyZ VVx5y081FKM3YidJgWStddHnYmQ17A0wzw9P0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; b=n1ZqZreCkYJAKHJYH6RfXL2GGAkGrfZ03X0Yl34AS/iGC7ZrEbP7C/3vra6gBSmvcT xVpBvgRKSvPuKOKQfFoA4LV4O0QOggIpcojTng2oEQgNAY8fo6vFwOpoijxYQDyQbp8d 70aCnxF6M8/q4ZX5ICIPK/1kjLC4fOrk6+XZM= Original-Received: by 10.114.201.2 with SMTP id y2mr8581339waf.184.1244392051745; Sun, 07 Jun 2009 09:27:31 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?192.168.0.5? ([123.121.229.136]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m31sm3951234wag.31.2009.06.07.09.27.29 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 07 Jun 2009 09:27:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:65013 Archived-At: On Jun 7, 2009, at 7:58 PM, Lennart Borgman wrote: > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Christian > Herenz wrote: >> Chris Gordon-Smith schrieb: >>> >>> Hello All >>> >>> I have recently started using Emacs on a regular basis. I read in >>> the >>> Emacs documentation that it is more efficient to use C-N, C-P etc. >>> rather >>> than arrow keys. Is this really true? I'm persisting with it, but >>> those >>> arrow keys still seem pretty attractive. I've been using emacs for less than a year. I feel comfortable with python mode, outline mode, dired, org-mode, slime and auctex. And yet, the stupid f-b-n-p issue is a constant pain. Why, in an editor that's utilized through habit and muscle memory, are the most primary navigation keys based on *mnemonic* devices like forward-back-next- previous? Why is that necessary? I can open files on remote servers, eval defuns, and relocate sub-trees easier than I can move forward three words and then move forward another two characters. I'm aware of solutions like ergo-movement or whatever, but it messes with the whole arrangement of keys and really isn't viable. Only now, after nearly a year of use, am I finally getting to the point where it is more efficient to reach for f-b-n-p than to reach for the arrow keys. This is a rant. I have no real point. In the end, it's better to use f- b-n-p, but good Lord it takes a long time to get here. E >> >> Yeah... I also tend to use them frequently for navigational >> purposes. But, I >> think the general idea is, that you dont have to move the hand away >> from the >> area which it is on, when you are writing. > > ... and you can of course use Emacs with a vi key interface (Viper) > which is (according to some people) more efficient ... once you have > learned it of course ... ;-) > >