From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: please make line-move-visual nil Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 19:53:18 -0400 Message-ID: References: <23521879.post@talk.nabble.com><7b501d5c0905131659r1d79ec56s5a59f76e4713edf9@mail.gmail.com><23532135.post@talk.nabble.com> <87tz3odq3l.fsf@iki.fi><23538683.post@talk.nabble.com> <87eiuru24b.fsf@iki.fi><39370.130.55.118.19.1242397867.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <48914.130.55.118.19.1242592120.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <66C6BA04EBCF4B6DAED69E851627D852@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v935.3) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary=Apple-Mail-14-761509895; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1243209223 2359 80.91.229.12 (24 May 2009 23:53:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 May 2009 23:53:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 25 01:53:36 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1M8NVX-0006oJ-5i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 May 2009 01:53:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41069 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8NVW-0000mG-Np for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:53:34 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8NVR-0000iF-0V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:53:29 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1M8NVQ-0000gl-5V for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:53:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=46989 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1M8NVQ-0000gY-2t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:53:28 -0400 Original-Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.147]:38323) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1M8NVP-0007Fx-I3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 May 2009 19:53:27 -0400 Original-Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 13so535365eye.24 for ; Sun, 24 May 2009 16:53:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:cc:message-id:from:to :in-reply-to:content-type:mime-version:subject:date:references :x-mailer; bh=niFN5xA6F5S0a+oi3BOGDmIF3pnXO/FjUXu3atitDec=; b=tvKCR0A3Ld6kpuT3PDiS9KnD0XrdGVsj/NX9N8nmZmL+CuyT3mpelaC+ZBvEgH3Cdu hg/m1UaKCTcx4V80AUR9qjjkud/oQbN3i28PYu3JtOETSpr+/RAEk0reEQxWgt3K7VLT 7rm1bF6DVf0UCTQS7eWHVtexaT+diW02tuDTI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=cc:message-id:from:to:in-reply-to:content-type:mime-version:subject :date:references:x-mailer; b=wyvp+z1GGHd2XZZLaKIXD5IzikngpPUpNkXaKVvo571/AeEFFSR4bFFWMGMTtRiU3N b0XYJqb9JwXI8hGyMIxMIZjdGkZqcFLyLjq8II/bAmA5B303k8RSWXemLssuyTtFvelq N8vL7U9sKGsG+Kdwq/gUXZKxpBl2KmHfc6ZTg= Original-Received: by 10.210.11.13 with SMTP id 13mr4119497ebk.42.1243209205443; Sun, 24 May 2009 16:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?192.168.1.42? (pool-71-162-19-47.pitbpa.east.verizon.net [71.162.19.47]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 10sm7516206eyd.22.2009.05.24.16.53.23 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 24 May 2009 16:53:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <66C6BA04EBCF4B6DAED69E851627D852@us.oracle.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.935.3) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:111048 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail-14-761509895 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On May 24, 2009, at 6:33 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > If you absolutely feel the need to make the default value be t for > modes such as > text-mode, which (you are convinced) are likely to benefit from it, > then do so. > But PLEASE leave the rest of Emacs alone, by default. This is a bad > choice for > Emacs - please reconsider this. You didn't give any reason to support your view. I can see where you're coming from, though. I believe line-move-visual should be t because in this mode of operation, cursor movement commands correspond most closely to the visual representation of the buffer. Note that I have bound C-n/p to non-visual movement in Aquamacs, while arrow keys are visual. But of course I can see the argument to keep C- n/p and arrow keys bound to the same commands in Emacs, where a closer relationship between TTY and window system use is desired. Leo wrote: > If the purpose is to make new users feel at home, then we could create > something like firstboot.el that runs in the first run. Most operating > systems have this. ... and then Emacs would magically and surprisingly change its configuration after the first startup? Even more confusing. How about a newbie-mode, which can be en/disabled directly from the startup screen? Ps.: I think it's too late in the game for 23.1 for this sort of change. --Apple-Mail-14-761509895 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIFxDCCAn0w ggHmoAMCAQICED6shx13jEDrq0eL8FRq5ykwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA4MTIwOTAyMDgwMVoXDTA5MTIwOTAyMDgw MVowYjEQMA4GA1UEBBMHUmVpdHRlcjEOMAwGA1UEKhMFRGF2aWQxFjAUBgNVBAMTDURhdmlkIFJl aXR0ZXIxJjAkBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWF2RhdmlkLnJlaXR0ZXJAZ21haWwuY29tMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3 DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDOdo6kAwlkBxUb8dj4saMbYg4SVng8CUePFn3cjjWrakBTbUVa4Z0n wlUxr7AitEeKhBy5nGhu96+jKUPrCwYNRCZ0l2ovvuGq4z1m1nZ5/c8WvFlVhieuxXMUfmb/O7D3 IojoX6iS8n5MNNU2IWNNT/AD3vOl6DKgOtOw4J9y+QIDAQABozQwMjAiBgNVHREEGzAZgRdkYXZp ZC5yZWl0dGVyQGdtYWlsLmNvbTAMBgNVHRMBAf8EAjAAMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4GBAIjI8yEW wkiEfA9PMgpjnD6KyCXT0iZjHhW2PkR53yZZLUoTboHnKgsFwYp/gzzIL8J5cvZaRUyMUzXDufPP dRmxxCs2jXXLDD/8bvdvOuMzqgYoFA73fAfsC8S6qUL1PayZ90J8CZHNhDwqWqOA56T+DdKUegJT sqoHKh6OnypTMIIDPzCCAqigAwIBAgIBDTANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADCB0TELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx FTATBgNVBAgTDFdlc3Rlcm4gQ2FwZTESMBAGA1UEBxMJQ2FwZSBUb3duMRowGAYDVQQKExFUaGF3 dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZzEoMCYGA1UECxMfQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBTZXJ2aWNlcyBEaXZpc2lvbjEk MCIGA1UEAxMbVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIENBMSswKQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhxwZXJz b25hbC1mcmVlbWFpbEB0aGF3dGUuY29tMB4XDTAzMDcxNzAwMDAwMFoXDTEzMDcxNjIzNTk1OVow YjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAq BgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDEpjxVc1X7TrnKmVoeaMB1BHCd3+n/ox7svc31W/Iadr1/DDph8r9RzgHU 5VAKMNcCY1osiRVwjt3J8CuFWqo/cVbLrzwLB+fxH5E2JCoTzyvV84J3PQO+K/67GD4Hv0CAAmTX p6a7n2XRxSpUhQ9IBH+nttE8YQRAHmQZcmC3+wIDAQABo4GUMIGRMBIGA1UdEwEB/wQIMAYBAf8C AQAwQwYDVR0fBDwwOjA4oDagNIYyaHR0cDovL2NybC50aGF3dGUuY29tL1RoYXd0ZVBlcnNvbmFs RnJlZW1haWxDQS5jcmwwCwYDVR0PBAQDAgEGMCkGA1UdEQQiMCCkHjAcMRowGAYDVQQDExFQcml2 YXRlTGFiZWwyLTEzODANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFAAOBgQBIjNFQg+oLLswNo2asZw9/r6y+whehQ5aU nX9MIbj4Nh+qLZ82L8D0HFAgk3A8/a3hYWLD2ToZfoSxmRsAxRoLgnSeJVCUYsfbJ3FXJY3dqZw5 jowgT2Vfldr394fWxghOrvbqNOUQGls1TXfjViF4gtwhGTXeJLHTHUb/XV9lTzGCAo8wggKLAgEB MHYwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4x LDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBAhA+rIcdd4xA66tH i/BUaucpMAkGBSsOAwIaBQCgggFvMBgGCSqGSIb3DQEJAzELBgkqhkiG9w0BBwEwHAYJKoZIhvcN AQkFMQ8XDTA5MDUyNDIzNTMxOFowIwYJKoZIhvcNAQkEMRYEFNvoHKNWtvC1iam1OM+Rp6dkprx3 MIGFBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxeDB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3Vs dGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWlu ZyBDQQIQPqyHHXeMQOurR4vwVGrnKTCBhwYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxeKB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpB MSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUg UGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQPqyHHXeMQOurR4vwVGrnKTANBgkqhkiG9w0B AQEFAASBgJDOknsmjyJMpePM5TF3xmK53v4UKXcFwipFgJ7U9U0MlinOyh9Sfw062OUkgORD696x dsn0AgLwfN8Ol9mrxodRDEYJ11gSun3ma3ILavF/Q2zI/uj5Ktdaf2d7/K69PzrUAXZJm+vUC1oN psu/LWp1TS/bftWvPHybWQtF8OA2AAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-14-761509895--