From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: SES manual French translation (Re: Where to contribute manual translations ?) Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2024 12:56:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <837cky94rm.fsf@gnu.org> <83v88i77ui.fsf@gnu.org> <831qb45fog.fsf@gnu.org> <50A7AFED-DA37-4212-9ED1-7D906C34B6B2@traductaire-libre.org> <83o7e51bws.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8917"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Vincent_Bela=C3=AFche?= , stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 01 17:01:54 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rKKjh-0001ow-Na for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 17:01:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rKKia-00075f-2d; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 11:00:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rKHqj-0006nh-G2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 07:56:57 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-40136.proton.ch ([185.70.40.136]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rKHqg-0001ef-M9; Mon, 01 Jan 2024 07:56:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=traductaire-libre.org; s=protonmail; t=1704113810; x=1704373010; bh=YlAkUDAOCUamOaeM/9ZnWYvNx9EaWt0TynNbsKdkPx0=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=2TfmbOolqYtwE2fd/D3tTZAFwJGK45TS2zMf+ZhasJA1Cfcxx+2IL69OJzvaJG6mA dlFyikZ66tWqZkA6ECbFd8DCjx5xpjmdwFPWZtmkzqaZPB55FiGbS+UXq7Vg+kZ/Oc SZ8ZeU70+e/Qs+zYlFssUv6u1hYCaTctrjUDidN6Abpuxras53hCCF43t5xNy+Hd6O ohrplUtmYsEyWv0dJAiIak0t2HL45u+dMhz5qztR7kfixNSxCmiypSAfpQP/EbDF9c seT/WMEJkxwwX31Ib3O22o/9wDTXrpWKU+3ujr+iWiq381pHYHn2h/Lp6F+NRq4+lw UeDle4sqcoQUA== In-Reply-To: <83o7e51bws.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 92162971:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.136; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org; helo=mail-40136.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 01 Jan 2024 11:00:40 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314423 Archived-At: > On Jan 1, 2024, at 21:22, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >=20 >> Date: Mon, 01 Jan 2024 07:57:01 +0000 >> From: Jean-Christophe Helary >> Cc: Eli Zaretskii , >> "stefankangas@gmail.com" , >> "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , Richard Stallman >>=20 >> It seems like you left French parts in the English manual as "todo >> items". >>=20 >> For ex. l.168-210. >>=20 >> https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/doc/misc/ses.texi#n168 >>=20 >> Even if they're tagged as @ignore, I'm not sure that's good practice >> for potential translators to other languages. >=20 > Those should be moved to ses-fr.texi, possibly together with the > original English text and some references to it. Keeping those > comments in ses.texi is not TRT. TRT? The right thing? >> The Savannah project is dead. We can create another one, discuss our >> issues there and push the deliverables to the Emacs repo when they are >> ready. >=20 > Why not discuss it here and install any changes you agree upon > directly? I'd prefer not to have a separate intermediate repository, > as that would complicate maintenance, especially if other French > speakers join the effort. Sure. I don=E2=80=99t see any problem discussing French grammatical issues = here=20 and having committers directly install files, of course. My opinion is that translators should not work directly in texi format,=20 for the reasons that I mentioned earlier in the thread, namely because=20 emacs documentation evolves quickly and all the problems identified in=20 such localization/translation processes have found solutions with PO=20 based translation processes. If we were to have a robust translation process within the emacs=20 repository (and there is no reason why we can=E2=80=99t, since all the majo= r=20 free software endeavours around have one), we=E2=80=99d need an intermediat= e=20 location where PO files are generated (with po4a) as the documentation=20 evolves. And translators would update the translations found there, and=20 there would be a process that converts back the translations to texi=20 and puts them in the proper location (the one that was decided upon=20 here). If we were to do that within the emacs repository/development process=20 that would mean adding a dependency to po4a, having an automated=20 process that triggers po4a when a documentation file is modified,=20 triggering po4a when a po has been committed to convert the file back=20 to texi, and copying the proper files to the emacs docs files hierarchy. Or maybe we could have that done manually (I could install the PO files=20 in a dedicated repository when I see modifications to a file). I=E2=80=99m talking about that when I say =E2=80=9Cother repository= =E2=80=9D. What I=E2=80=99m doing in=20 my repo is basically providing PO files semi-regularly to people who are=20 interested and I happen to translate the PO files in OmegaT (but that= =E2=80=99s=20 not relevant to the process really since one could use po-mode in emacs).= =20 It=E2=80=99s also the way other projects work. They =E2=80=9Cdelegate= =E2=80=9D the process to=20 specialized localization groups and each group has a few committers=20 that handle the installation in the =E2=80=9Cmother=E2=80=9D project. --=20 Jean-Christophe Helary @jchelary@emacs.ch https://traductaire-libre.org https://mac4translators.blogspot.com https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/