From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adrian Robert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#2532: NS: ns-expand-space / slider in Preferences dialog not functional Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 21:20:13 +0200 Message-ID: References: <21F51971-5679-45BF-85A0-D982CA73E722@gmail.com> <5393D476-3312-4DF3-AF39-6D698B7FDA49@gmail.com> Reply-To: Adrian Robert , 2532@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1236368708 19676 80.91.229.12 (6 Mar 2009 19:45:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:45:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 2532@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, Emacs-Devel devel To: David Reitter Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 06 20:46:24 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Lffzk-0001RV-3n for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:46:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41445 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LffyO-0002WY-J0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:44:44 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LffxS-0001sX-KC for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:43:46 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LffxQ-0001rD-LU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:43:45 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43845 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LffxQ-0001qx-3k for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:43:44 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu ([138.23.92.77]:45464) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LffxP-0001wq-IO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:43:43 -0500 Original-Received: from rzlab.ucr.edu (rzlab.ucr.edu [127.0.0.1]) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id n26Jhei2018137; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:43:41 -0800 Original-Received: (from debbugs@localhost) by rzlab.ucr.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id n26JP3B9013255; Fri, 6 Mar 2009 11:25:03 -0800 X-Loop: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-From: Adrian Robert Resent-To: bug-submit-list@donarmstrong.com Resent-CC: Emacs Bugs , owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com Resent-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:25:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: owner@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com X-Emacs-PR-Message: followup 2532 X-Emacs-PR-Package: emacs,ns X-Emacs-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 2532-submit@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com id=B2532.123636718011914 (code B ref 2532); Fri, 06 Mar 2009 19:25:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 2532) by emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com; 6 Mar 2009 19:19:40 +0000 X-Spam-Bayes: score:0.5 Bayes not run. spammytokens:Tokens not available. hammytokens:Tokens not available. 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(gprs-prointernet-ffc0c200-246.dhcp.inet.fi [88.194.192.246]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d2sm2779583nfc.51.2009.03.06.11.19.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:19:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5393D476-3312-4DF3-AF39-6D698B7FDA49@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) Resent-Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:43:45 -0500 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:26064 Archived-At: On Mar 5, 2009, at 5:39 AM, David Reitter wrote: > The `ns-set-resource' Elisp interface is better than none on the > Elisp side, but what happened to Emacs customization variables? > > As said before on this list, introducing another way (beyond .emacs > and customization/custom-file) creates a new failure point for > people's configurations. This is bad in two respects: they won't > be able to reset Emacs to a vanilla state, or troubleshoot a faulty > configuration. > ... > All of these things make it harder to support users. "emacs -q" is > helpful, but at the end of the day, people want to run "emacs". > Especially seasoned users will complain that they have to find and > delete ~/Library/Preferences/org.gnu.emacs.plist. This is no longer true -- running -q or -Q now ignores the plist -- though not X resources, I believe. The one difference between the NS defaults and X resources is that the defaults system is read/write, whereas X resources are for some strange reason read-only by design. After various discussion here, I now believe this difference is fundamental, and that the NS defaults system should therefore be used in Emacs only internally for parameters that are specific to NS and not set by users. This includes reading existing system settings like anti-aliasing threshold, as well as storing previous directories and window locations for file open/save dialogs. Completely behind- the-scenes stuff. I would advocate transitioning all of the ns-xxx lisp variables that are not stored in defaults to the customization system. I am not sure if it is appropriate to do this under pretest, however. It would be a user-visible change and potentially cause unexpected side effects.