From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adrian Robert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: NS: ns-expand-space / slider in Preferences dialog not functional Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 21:20:13 +0200 Message-ID: References: <21F51971-5679-45BF-85A0-D982CA73E722@gmail.com> <5393D476-3312-4DF3-AF39-6D698B7FDA49@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1236367230 10739 80.91.229.12 (6 Mar 2009 19:20:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 19:20:30 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 2532@emacsbugs.donarmstrong.com, Emacs-Devel devel To: David Reitter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 06 20:21:47 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Lffc3-0000BC-Sk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:21:40 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49123 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lffai-0006Vm-CQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:20:16 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lffa7-0006JG-J7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:19:39 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Lffa6-0006Ic-2E for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:19:39 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=51108 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lffa6-0006IZ-02 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:19:38 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ew0-f179.google.com ([209.85.219.179]:39195) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Lffa5-0002r3-LF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 14:19:37 -0500 Original-Received: by ewy27 with SMTP id 27so299050ewy.42 for ; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:19:35 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding :from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=MiJe2gQK2hpf450gSLjQuL7wFf0S6YYS2YhN9JU3L6c=; b=UK1OHhnq0YEZ8vFrNQNlqG9I6zhos7fgBv1NLtxZFoyWJDdZ8XywoS2oV34mc5QbMK DWb3WybCK19R2v7lMngqy1rGhDNKev3ycGm/Xrg6NvljKavZvo5H7VbsRwgua5XPTwFA /7NE7jP6rYFKPtvWgcYcfIFFDVwZUMDqml1Ck= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc :content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=g8mDKFurNyUNl6c5VmvigIrmo2ygVIWO6BCj1VCMDa2EjwuMC9c4s4yaZ8GOAgqkl4 9oea81hjjvYfXATBYiNOAxw0T3gFl6dmO+XBfcjjx0zRsqdFr7ON2u2RS7TP1QnYW1pB gbZgQui4YDCdh5XvKGlJiFo386DSagwRnhbKQ= Original-Received: by 10.210.92.8 with SMTP id p8mr1282688ebb.55.1236367175910; Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:19:35 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from ?88.194.192.246? (gprs-prointernet-ffc0c200-246.dhcp.inet.fi [88.194.192.246]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d2sm2779583nfc.51.2009.03.06.11.19.33 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 06 Mar 2009 11:19:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5393D476-3312-4DF3-AF39-6D698B7FDA49@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.753.1) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:109494 Archived-At: On Mar 5, 2009, at 5:39 AM, David Reitter wrote: > The `ns-set-resource' Elisp interface is better than none on the > Elisp side, but what happened to Emacs customization variables? > > As said before on this list, introducing another way (beyond .emacs > and customization/custom-file) creates a new failure point for > people's configurations. This is bad in two respects: they won't > be able to reset Emacs to a vanilla state, or troubleshoot a faulty > configuration. > ... > All of these things make it harder to support users. "emacs -q" is > helpful, but at the end of the day, people want to run "emacs". > Especially seasoned users will complain that they have to find and > delete ~/Library/Preferences/org.gnu.emacs.plist. This is no longer true -- running -q or -Q now ignores the plist -- though not X resources, I believe. The one difference between the NS defaults and X resources is that the defaults system is read/write, whereas X resources are for some strange reason read-only by design. After various discussion here, I now believe this difference is fundamental, and that the NS defaults system should therefore be used in Emacs only internally for parameters that are specific to NS and not set by users. This includes reading existing system settings like anti-aliasing threshold, as well as storing previous directories and window locations for file open/save dialogs. Completely behind- the-scenes stuff. I would advocate transitioning all of the ns-xxx lisp variables that are not stored in defaults to the customization system. I am not sure if it is appropriate to do this under pretest, however. It would be a user-visible change and potentially cause unexpected side effects.