From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Francis Belliveau Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Fwd: Keeping up; was Another Emacs incompatibility Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2020 16:18:58 -0400 Message-ID: References: <0554D751-5F78-47EA-BFAE-7D2CD2A01957@comcast.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6629"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 23 22:19:24 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1k9wSZ-0001eE-Sf for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2020 22:19:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51908 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k9wSY-0000rS-Vg for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2020 16:19:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44806) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k9wSI-0000rL-7I for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2020 16:19:06 -0400 Original-Received: from resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net ([2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:44]:47894) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1k9wSF-0000wk-Fx for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Aug 2020 16:19:04 -0400 Original-Received: from resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net ([69.252.207.116]) by resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id 9wHxkcK6TVPlj9wSDkR9Pi; Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:19:01 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=20190202a; t=1598213941; bh=rNf3M7TNtt4YLlCsNstS5H98Qlhiq5wL2tBDbtIpNgU=; h=Received:Received:From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject: Message-Id:To:Date; b=kD7/c7QI8B6mvBpaQDZ7vkvsIbVBFfT+B3qQPmDg4Kbp6kmpaMoSUwNy/2I3h1b8Z QnzWvGwmpi8eiKis7Fav8QrL9PA8Hd3mgDBxuuPr1i8l0jNAik+ksoQSp5AKiNdaB9 LKAsOFYfzbOmQVZLuuGen3IlbsSxg1xyeqBNW2fsXfWfNqlb+Sc1a1zKRk4z3ua6sO Zz4UIpvjFM0VbjApSfEPqAyRZjTMLNMPKZPlDqFCiSucLiJbX5ILV+1unTQwOm0vJS uL5+vfn5JmFHabXNm/U24X6KWwgauELuBb4WAEgHS+kPHot1pTJXtsfuUy/jmVMWQh wEuNG9qG1LuzQ== Original-Received: from [192.168.1.105] ([73.119.168.97]) by resomta-ch2-20v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPSA id 9wSBkeKeSdTvh9wSCkEDQy; Sun, 23 Aug 2020 20:19:01 +0000 X-Xfinity-VAAS: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduiedrudduiedgudeggecutefuodetggdotefrodftvfcurfhrohhfihhlvgemucevohhmtggrshhtqdftvghsihdpqfgfvfdppffquffrtefokffrnecuuegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhephfgtgfgguffkfhfvfffosehtqhhmtdhhtddvnecuhfhrohhmpefhrhgrnhgtihhsuceuvghllhhivhgvrghuuceofhdrsggvlhhlihhvvggruhestghomhgtrghsthdrnhgvtheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepuddvtddtfedtffffffeftdfgkefhueehgfejheevveeivdetheethfduheeugfffnecukfhppeejfedrudduledrudeikedrleejnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehhvghloheplgduledvrdduieekrddurddutdehngdpihhnvghtpeejfedrudduledrudeikedrleejpdhmrghilhhfrhhomhepfhdrsggvlhhlihhvvggruhestghomhgtrghsthdrnhgvthdprhgtphhtthhopehhvghlphdqghhnuhdqvghmrggtshesghhnuhdrohhrgh X-Xfinity-VMeta: sc=0.00;st=legit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2001:558:fe21:29:69:252:207:44; envelope-from=f.belliveau@comcast.net; helo=resqmta-ch2-12v.sys.comcast.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/08/23 15:42:17 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:123738 Archived-At: I accidentally sent this to Eli when I meant to send it to the list. Sorry for the double-tap Eli. Here I am rolling back the conversation a bit with a response to two = good posts at the bottom. Stefan is correct, every change will cause somebody to be unhappy. My biggest problem is with the rate that I move from one version to the = next. I remember emacs 19 causing all kinds of problem with my = customizations. I still have an e19hacks.el file in use. I usually upgrade only every 3 or 4 major revisions at as time. It is = difficult to keep up with what needs to be done to fix all the problems. = I am still having a lot of problems with 26.1, but I am sure that some = of the annoyances could be OS related. This new replace-region is a = problem, but I have adapted by making sure that I move the cursor after = placing the mark. Highlighted region is another. I just use ^g to work = around it Eli says that things are always announced in NEWS. I never heard of = that so now I need to read everything since 23.x to figure out what to = turn off and how to repair all the automated indenting back to my = liking. I have not yet asked any questions, after months of use, because I have = yet to find the time to dig into the documentation regarding how all = this is supposed to work. I never did fix Java the way I wanted it in = 23.x and now C and C++ are working differently. Is this frustrating? YES. Whose fault is it? Mostly my own for not keeping up. Now let me ask a question that I have trouble with for a long time. My = customizations turn off the menus and tool-bars because they take up = valuable screen-space and I hate leaving the keyboard to use them. However, I often end up on a machine where my custom stuff does not = exist and accidentally change the focus within emacs to a menu while = moving focus between windows. How do I get emacs to focus back on the buffer so that I can go back to = typing?I generally fight my way out of the problem, but I have yet to = find a magic combination that I can remember to use next time Fran >=20 >> On Aug 17, 2020, at 12:08, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >>=20 >> Emacs doesn't change such basic traits of its usage, either. We >> haven't changed the command-line options, didn't change the = documented >> APIs of Emacs primitives in incompatible ways, and '+' still adds, >> doesn't subtract. However, Emacs has several orders of magnitude = more >> features as aspects than the likes of cp and mv, and as time passes >> and the Emacs audience changes, the popular demand for some of them >> also changes. >>=20 >> In any case, whenever a backward-incompatible change happens, there's >> usually a way, called out in NEWS, to get back old behavior. >>=20 >=20 >> On Aug 17, 2020, at 16:42, Stefan Monnier = wrote: >>=20 >> For any change to Emacs (new feature, change to defaults, bug fix, = you >> name it), one can easily come up with some scenario where the change >> results in an undesired result [ the credibility/likelihood of the >> scenario may vary widely, of course ]. So the only really safe way = to >> avoid introducing new problems is to leave the code 100% unchanged.