From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general Subject: Re: @dircategory (Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strategic importance) Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 13:49:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <837cknvkrx.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0iuuacz.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5piu1y3.fsf@gnu.org> <3BA42BAC-B6D2-4531-BDC2-D8037E7038F7@traductaire-libre.org> <83wmsmsjbt.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10263"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, vincent.b.1@hotmail.fr, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 06 14:56:22 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rM79y-0002Qh-6x for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 14:56:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rM79H-0000SU-3I; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 08:55:39 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rM73x-0007nN-S4; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 08:50:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-4022.proton.ch ([185.70.40.22]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rM73u-0004M2-Ly; Sat, 06 Jan 2024 08:50:09 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=traductaire-libre.org; s=protonmail; t=1704549002; x=1704808202; bh=0dekPVo5HuPJ9oraFK1d1+jwDBGpe8SP+iwaxuP/rT8=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=gruBNAOrpEVprl4QCW5mJBOm6LfeiDuwvC2iAsi3+cEjWxf8pLMQSJmtreDHHN7iN 3OYkfbNBEM5RERbCDeVyLTZrILHBlM+j5LrQqVLMcr90Ic8ynDrvjmRJF2nmounRCm wXLEh1MQJdDe7NbnMiigO52LnxQKjkFltiz/VCjR/Lffr0sKovcPD6bjjlUM0q2pfP ukhgWg1rN11/jBU0ASqPcuqnoRq7Mgfz/pL/ys4N4ftw+sEr0Wi1L5/ZAdWlid/hIN 3QWyVI8wLwfsS8S7Ry2YnEcAzVC5chQupQ5RgYHQuRTM4pl/UnA/ApKSXYuBx78nAb 9p0MXp9EFuDWA== In-Reply-To: <83wmsmsjbt.fsf@gnu.org> Feedback-ID: 92162971:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.22; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org; helo=mail-4022.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 06 Jan 2024 08:55:36 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314626 gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general:3376 Archived-At: > On Jan 6, 2024, at 22:05, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Supposedly, the user has installed the manual independently and knows >> that there will be limitations. Just like all web sites have default 404 >> pages and some have redirection, the error does not have to read like >> a punishment. >=20 > It is an annoyance. gettext shows the original English message if > there's no translation, and I think we should try doing the same in > Info. Ok. Fair enough. >> Btw, does your comment indicate that you are currently not strongly >> opposed to translating the node names? >=20 > I'm not opposed, but I tend to think we shouldn't translate them until > Texinfo developers figure out how to handle these cases. Ok. I guess it's also a matter of how much a manual is linked to from=20 other manuals. Thinking out loud here, but @node currently requires the node-name=20 argument and has next/preious/up optional argument. It seems to me that=20 most of the issues would be fixed by adding a fifth argument that acts=20 like the cross-references' second argument (online-label). That way,=20 node-name can stay as it is and act as the pointer but is displayed as=20 "online-label", which is the translated part. Same for the cross-references, if we generalize the use of 2 or 3=20 arguments.