From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Licence of ts-comint Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:15:41 +0200 Message-ID: References: <1502621936.3273210.1071832168.58C017A8@webmail.messagingengine.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_568D6314-1353-44CF-837A-39E684561272" X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1502626601 27515 195.159.176.226 (13 Aug 2017 12:16:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2017 12:16:41 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: jostein@kjonigsen.net Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 13 14:16:32 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dgrol-0006b5-UG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 14:16:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43429 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dgros-000422-Dn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 08:16:38 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41401) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dgro6-00040K-U0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 08:15:52 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dgro2-00047f-Qw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 08:15:50 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wr0-x22f.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f]:33084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dgro2-00044e-Gz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 08:15:46 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wr0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id b65so1958876wrd.0 for ; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 05:15:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=jO2OldVTG917hEjpIF/qR+lRaotFKDhf7LN3wrEq6tw=; b=RTJU9RJzD5vC9REa1QjEkiFZB+6K8FlYbDeb1FGom3O4dXM8LJ9q+2c3/3so71sL6m qKHlUzLvzeD5zMGCQJQiunnjKt6eTQUGvXmMNR69XlTsxjyxMC7nRnwr76fo4TuhVC35 kpfOcLUr+mF3XxBr57coUaFtoWHocnNUl/6eiqgtUXJs82cJZiVV6zDLywW6bPP9lSsX L5KzupMWGKD3YJ1DbgT8KWlFhWNXcIAEZUilrPPyYNh55zon9Rf9oKdcrkoOUtz7NTQz ETJ0Faf2gxLbe6Goy82vSJamj97ZXv/17Ta6UMRcG50lJXREB9wLmNJyAXwgxHXyhQMe tdGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=jO2OldVTG917hEjpIF/qR+lRaotFKDhf7LN3wrEq6tw=; b=KzoBYH9TqRZ0bLJ3Z5XRfxNtGHYpqQf4jho0WI3cKNWiDDjwNfGlwg7/Nu4Z2P0srY Atg528IC/hOXBMu/6eNt6g6tEzU4nnI9E7lj03XpNZhIT15uGYWAhZuNoVpACXbqvCnq nQleh0hz9pqwELm28QDJKtYjK5vG6GYqOD1RTkwyskdCtKagtpXWySdK9orF2vhVOEKs WQXImncxkWhj9kcE4oQ+ysNFADDNUZ9seD2K/3VgtrqmXH+dOnmeQCnJjvK3xxDmjP2G Xyoht4uB6UvPu6543DYP6dc3VvMvLx8oCITkdV8leeFADstQvcFaZSxTcpvuystfRr+7 Kq+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHYfb5iHzlv5mOSu8y+1up1qQ3XTsP3sZAW52G0Jf0yIIs2TQ4/dBLhX aeZPmrRqBe/PkIUxv/4= X-Received: by 10.223.184.166 with SMTP id i35mr649520wrf.281.1502626543725; Sun, 13 Aug 2017 05:15:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from pc34.home (ABordeaux-653-1-313-33.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr. [109.214.209.33]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g17sm4243563wrc.28.2017.08.13.05.15.41 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 13 Aug 2017 05:15:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1502621936.3273210.1071832168.58C017A8@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22f X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:217508 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_568D6314-1353-44CF-837A-39E684561272 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Jostein, Thank you very much for the reply. I must apologize for the hassle because the script that automatically = checked for GPL2+ (or other equivalent wordings) did not catch "GPL 2 or = whatever newer comes along" and I did not take the time to actually = check for myself. Thank you very much for your work, and for making the effort to use a = license that makes your package compatible with Emacs. Regards, Jean-Christophe=20 > On Aug 13, 2017, at 12:58, Jostein Kj=C3=B8nigsen = wrote: >=20 > Hey Jean. >=20 > Thanks for the email. >=20 > I'll be frank and admit I don't really care that much about licensing = as long as software I use is open-source. That applies to stuff I write = and maintain myself. >=20 > (Prepare for a slight rant) >=20 > With that said, I'm a bit put off by how much effort the FSF/GNU puts = into copyright and licensing of code, as opposed ... the code itself. >=20 > The whole GCC AST thing and debate about the "freeness" of the AST = lead to LLVM being made. For similar reasons, Emacs and GUD has for a = long time not supported a Elf-3 capable debugger, because before GDB got = that capability that would mean supporting LLDB, which would be "bad" = (it not being GPL-licensed and all). >=20 > I've seen this quote on some forum online: "The FSF was formed to = replace proprietary software with free software. Having succeeded, it = now lives on to replace free software with free software". >=20 > It's obviously meant as a joke, but I hope you can see where that joke = is coming from. Is this really where your effort is best spent? >=20 > And now this... I honestly find the churn the FSF is putting on its = GPL licenses quite baffling. >=20 > If the GPL v1 was good enough for free software... Why on earth should = the FSF develop and deploy a new license which renders all former GPLed = code "incompatible" (as you put it)? I'm lost for words. Are there = really anyone besides Richard M. Stallmann who condones this move? >=20 > If you now make the GPL-license incompatible not only with BSD or = MIT-type licenses, but also the GPL license itself... Prepare to be even = further berated next time the GPL vs BSD-license is up for debate in = online forums. Why put so much effort into making license compliance so = hard? >=20 > =46rom the outside looking in, it looks like needlessly = inconveniencing the very people who made stuff for your platform. >=20 > You're obviously free to do whatever you please, but to me this just = seems a misguided. If your goal is to promote free software, how do you = see this helping? >=20 > (End of rant) >=20 > That said... My small and pretty insignificant package is already = licensed "GPL 2 or whatever newer comes along". >=20 > If you still think this is "incompatible" and needs an upgrade, and if = you are willing to do the leg-work... You know where my repo is. Feel = free to issue a pull-request and I'll have it merged. >=20 > -- > Yours truly > Jostein Kj=C3=B8nigsen >=20 > jostein@kjonigsen.net =F0=9F=8D=B5 = jostein@gmail.com > https://jostein.kjonigsen.net >=20 >=20 > On Sat, Aug 12, 2017, at 10:24 AM, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> In a thread in the emacs-devel maillist, the licensing situation for >> emacs >> packages provided through Emacs package archives has been under = focus. I >> have >> volunteered to contact the authors of packages that have a license = that >> is >> incompatible with Emacs, which is now under GPL-3+. >>=20 >> See = https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-07/msg01069.html = >>=20 >> So I wonder if you could consider to change the license of your = package >> to >> GPL-3+? >>=20 >> Also, you may have noticed that the package from which ts-comint is >> forked has recently moved to GPL3+. >> = https://github.com/redguardtoo/js-comint/commit/eb4744122724b24e492c2171ff= f438e3ee2045a8 = >>=20 >> Yours, >>=20 >> Jean-Christophe Helary >=20 --Apple-Mail=_568D6314-1353-44CF-837A-39E684561272 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Jostein,

Thank you very much for the = reply.

I must = apologize for the hassle because the script that automatically checked = for GPL2+ (or other equivalent wordings) did not catch "GPL 2 or = whatever newer comes along" and I did not take the time to actually = check for myself.

Thank you very much for your work, and for making the effort = to use a license that makes your package compatible with = Emacs.

Regards,

Jean-Christophe 

On Aug 13, 2017, at 12:58, = Jostein Kj=C3=B8nigsen <jostein@secure.kjonigsen.net> wrote:

Hey Jean.

Thanks for the email.

I'll be frank and admit I don't really care that much about licensing as long as software I use is = open-source. That applies to stuff I write and maintain myself.

(Prepare for a slight rant)

With that said, I'm a bit put off by how much effort the = FSF/GNU puts into copyright and licensing of code, as opposed ... the = code itself.

The whole GCC AST thing and debate about the "freeness" = of the AST lead to LLVM being made. For similar reasons, Emacs and GUD = has for a long time not supported a Elf-3 capable debugger, because = before GDB got that capability that would mean supporting LLDB, which = would be "bad" (it not being GPL-licensed and all).

I've seen this quote on some forum online: "The FSF was = formed to replace proprietary software with free software. Having = succeeded, it now lives on to replace free software with free = software".

It's obviously meant as a joke, but I hope you can see = where that joke is coming from. Is this really where your effort is best = spent?

And now this... I honestly find the churn the FSF is putting on its GPL licenses quite = baffling.

If the GPL v1 was good enough for free software... Why = on earth should the FSF develop and deploy a new license which renders = all former GPLed code "incompatible" (as you put it)? I'm lost for = words. Are there really anyone besides Richard M. Stallmann who condones = this move?

If you now make the GPL-license incompatible not only = with BSD or MIT-type licenses, but also the GPL license itself... = Prepare to be even further berated next time the GPL vs BSD-license is = up for debate in online forums. Why put so much effort into making = license compliance so hard?

=46rom the outside looking in, it looks like = needlessly inconveniencing the very people who made stuff for your = platform.

You're obviously free to do whatever you please, but to = me this just seems a misguided. If your goal is to  promote free = software, how do you see this helping?

(End of rant)

That said... My small and pretty insignificant package = is already licensed "GPL 2 or whatever newer comes along".

If you still think this is "incompatible" and needs an = upgrade, and if you are willing to do the leg-work... You know where my = repo is. Feel free to issue a pull-request and I'll have it merged.

--
Yours truly
Jostein Kj=C3=B8nigsen

jostein@kjonigsen.net =F0=9F=8D=B5 jostein@gmail.com
https://jostein.kjonigsen.net


On Sat, Aug 12, 2017, at 10:24 AM, Jean-Christophe = Helary wrote:
Hi,

In a thread in the emacs-devel maillist, the licensing = situation for
emacs
packages provided through Emacs package archives has = been under focus. I
have
volunteered to contact the authors of packages that have = a license that
is
incompatible with Emacs, which is now under GPL-3+.

See https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2017-07/msg01069= .html

So I wonder if you could consider to change the license = of your package
to
GPL-3+?

Also, you may have noticed that the package from which = ts-comint is
forked has recently moved to GPL3+.
https://github.com/redguardtoo/js-comint/commit/eb4744122724b24= e492c2171fff438e3ee2045a8

Yours,

Jean-Christophe Helary


= --Apple-Mail=_568D6314-1353-44CF-837A-39E684561272--