From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: C-x C-e with prefix arg Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 13:13:53 -0700 Message-ID: References: <4D5891EF34DF42D3A479CF83CAF1E43E@us.oracle.com><87zjw97qo7.fsf@mail.jurta.org><87zjw9z0fk.fsf@mail.jurta.org><88878C7DA62F4DC792EEEE03D46C115B@us.oracle.com><87ip2w1ory.fsf@mail.jurta.org> <87ip2vlw8w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1367871246 10540 80.91.229.3 (6 May 2013 20:14:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 May 2013 20:14:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Juri Linkov'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon May 06 22:14:03 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UZRnP-00046P-BN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 22:14:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35628 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UZRnO-00053h-Su for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 16:14:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:35811) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UZRnL-00053J-Jh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 16:14:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UZRnK-0003Zn-Ij for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 16:13:59 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:36742) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UZRnK-0003Zi-Cp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 May 2013 16:13:58 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet22.oracle.com (ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r46KDufq027090 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 May 2013 20:13:57 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r46KDtnW012825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 6 May 2013 20:13:56 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt117.oracle.com (abhmt117.oracle.com [141.146.116.69]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r46KDtK9007169; Mon, 6 May 2013 20:13:55 GMT Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.8) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 06 May 2013 13:13:55 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87ip2vlw8w.fsf@mail.jurta.org> Thread-Index: Ac5Kk61kmkRqbtRWRTKVSNBI5DBx7QAAEQTA X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet22.oracle.com [156.151.31.94] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:159378 Archived-At: > > And like those other options, it should be ignored except > > via `C--' or `M--'. > > The default values should not be ignored by default. > > The default values of `eval-expression-print-length' and > `eval-expression-print-level' should be respected by all > `eval-expression' related functions by default because > they are _default_ values. > > An additional prefix arg like `M--' could be used to > override the default values. Although `M-0' would make > more sense because it will display more information > (the full value of the list printed by `M-0 C-x C-e'). We've been through all of this before, I believe. 1. We've already spoken about `M-- and `C--' vs `M-0'. The former (which was your proposed restriction of my initial proposal of any negative prefix arg) is preferable to the latter, IMO. We've been through the reasons. 2. The default values of those options will, by my proposal, be for use only with `M--' and `C--' (for `eval-last-sexp'), not for use with a non-negative prefix arg. That is the design I proposed. There is nothing wrong with offering options that take effect only in certain circumstances. Just because an option has a default value (and every option does) does not mean that the option takes effect by default for all commands that make might use of it. It is fine for a given command to make use of it in only some contexts. IMO, it is important that `C-x C-e' with a plain `C-u' (more generally, with a non-negative prefix arg) ignore those options altogether and print the full value. That was the _point_ of my suggestion, from the beginning. Most of the time when you want to print the value, you want the whole value, not an abbreviation. That's my claim. 3. The _default_ behavior of the command, on the other hand, does not print anything! We are discussing only the behavior of the command when the value is printed in the current buffer, which for `C-x C-e' means when you use a prefix arg.