From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Carsten Dominik Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: recent changes to org files Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:34:44 +0200 Message-ID: References: <8D11CC21-71C6-4BCE-ACBC-090E429E311A@science.uva.nl> <86k5pe6t4e.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> <1100BA17-7426-4C73-9EF0-FF90C1859B47@gmail.com> <86bqaq6pza.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1193139306 1293 80.91.229.12 (23 Oct 2007 11:35:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:35:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: John Wiegley , Stefan Monnier , Glenn Morris , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 23 13:35:07 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IkI2L-0008Sy-1y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:35:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkI2D-0003yx-2L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:34:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IkI29-0003ym-79 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:34:53 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1IkI28-0003yZ-L5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:34:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IkI28-0003yW-GT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:34:52 -0400 Original-Received: from ug-out-1314.google.com ([66.249.92.170]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1IkI26-0000oO-VT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:34:51 -0400 Original-Received: by ug-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id a2so115039ugf for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:34:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; bh=o9ayMzU0beFbzI9koljD1GOFutypSJPVahTsttJQRuQ=; b=XDUgyvfMh9TSRGyKiIzk0D23ae4TEC2ziReolB3yfSGaS2krbtd2a1RqChD7QPzaOmh48FKYXyRCDNk5b4xkgQo6gHFKobKfDgCJsD7ix3j+kNHbbXTub/mI4Gwm1F+LIbbSguZlHO0Uc0txcw7NaIDO5EHSiI9dDMUwtTV8zQ4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:content-transfer-encoding:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=aioPdIFcFB6en5bfyeVeHzuGyBS5MQuh+v4RxxmkQGwD+FRJSG1HDF8ELsA4DxzojVCINiZf7j3PHwhBcvW412kmcn7/o+KVUfrIfq+1VH0lkD96EsddwNkGerSn2upHQ0S05SeV+drGle2IuNECBrRtfa2o6CeFRotb8Fhznhk= Original-Received: by 10.67.10.13 with SMTP id n13mr701435ugi.1193139289778; Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from ?146.50.22.167? ( [146.50.22.167]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 24sm1445268ugf.2007.10.23.04.34.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:34:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <86bqaq6pza.fsf@lola.quinscape.zz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:81551 Archived-At: On Oct 23, 2007, at 1:16 PM, David Kastrup wrote: > Carsten Dominik writes: > >> I don't have the time to spend my days on emacs-devel, my energy >> goes into making org-mode as good as I can. The version of org-mode >> that is tested the most is the one I distribute, and the most likely >> to not have any bugs. > > That assumes that more people use the org-mode from your web site than > the org mode in Emacs, since using org-mode is a sort of testing. I do believe that many people use Org-mode in Emacs. But the people who use it heavily and report back fastest tent to be the ones on the development list, and they tend to run the newest version. Inside Emacs, I guess the version that is distributed with Emacs 22 is heavily tested, the CVS version less so? Not sure. > >> That is the one I am checking into. Emacs. When I see changes made >> to org-mode in Emacs I am incorporating them into my master copy if >> they make sense, and only then. >> >> If I would follow Stefan' advice and only check in diffs, the `next- >> line' code would be broken now. > > If indeed this would be the case (and I don't see that right now), it Well, checking in a patch with changes would not lead to a conflict in an area that I have not modified. So just checking in patches will not remove a bug that has (clearly by accident) been introduced in one of those clean-up operations where many files are are modified in order to implement a rule like "don't use next-line in lisp programs". These changes typically affect many files, and it is impossible for the developer who does the change to be sure in all cases that he has done the right thing. The only way to make sure is to run these changes by the maintainer. In that past, that has happened sometimes: I get an email with proposed changes, with the request to check them before they are committed. For example, Stefan has been doing things like this, and I appreciate his comments and additions, and the way he handles it, a lot. > would be broken in a documented and isolatable way, and for a reason. > This reason remains to exist. Overwriting the change without comment > or documentation means that the same reason will possibly result in > the same change being made later on. > > If some code is in violation of the Emacs development guidelines, the > reason should be documented so that people _know_ about it and leave > it alone. Silently reverting the change in a manner that looks like > an accident will not achieve this. Yes. Of course I only reverted the change "by accident" without an accompanying change log. Still, I am maintaining that the copy I work on every day is the most reliable one, and that any significant changes should be run by me. > >> I do agree, I am not battling, I am doing as good as I can and I I >> sometimes slip. But if I am the maintainer of org-mode in Emacs, >> than I and no one else decides what goes into the mode and what not. >> If people disagree, and I will quit maintaining this mode inside >> Emacs. > > Basically you are asking that nothing, including bug fixes, may be > committed to org-mode except by yourself. No, this is not correct. I request that I changes are run by me first, and that I get the last word. Obviously ion 99% of cases, things are fine and the will be only happy agreement. > Being a maintainer does not mean that nobody else may do work on the > code. It means that people in general respect you having the last > word. But it is the last, not the only word. Exactly my words. - Carsten