bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[uzibalqa via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

When a window is reduced in size I find no way to be able to use the mode-line tools.

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:15:58 +0000
> From:  uzibalqa via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
>  the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> 
> 
> When a window is reduced in size I find no way to be able to use the mode-line tools.

What do you mean by "mode-line tools", and how short does the
mode-line have to be in order to see the problems you see?

IOW, please provide a complete recipe to reproduce this problem,
starting from "emacs -Q", so that the problem and the way to reproduce
it will be clear.

Thanks.

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[uzibalqa via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

------- Original Message -------
On Friday, July 14th, 2023 at 3:56 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2023 15:15:58 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs,
> > the Swiss army knife of text editors" bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > When a window is reduced in size I find no way to be able to use the mode-line tools.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "mode-line tools", and how short does the
> mode-line have to be in order to see the problems you see?
> 
> IOW, please provide a complete recipe to reproduce this problem,
> starting from "emacs -Q", so that the problem and the way to reproduce
> it will be clear.
> 
> Thanks.

Suppose I have a bunch of self-defined minor modes displayed in the modeline, 
where the lighters have the capability of showing menus (e.g. Outl).

Now, consider I need an accessible modeline (i.e. one with big font and bold weight).
Reducing the frame or window width makes the lighters at the far end of the modeline
inaccessible for use.

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[Eli Zaretskii]

tags 64597 notabug wontfix
thanks

> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2023 21:25:29 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > > When a window is reduced in size I find no way to be able to use the mode-line tools.
> > 
> > 
> > What do you mean by "mode-line tools", and how short does the
> > mode-line have to be in order to see the problems you see?
> > 
> > IOW, please provide a complete recipe to reproduce this problem,
> > starting from "emacs -Q", so that the problem and the way to reproduce
> > it will be clear.
> > 
> > Thanks.
> 
> Suppose I have a bunch of self-defined minor modes displayed in the modeline, 
> where the lighters have the capability of showing menus (e.g. Outl).
> 
> Now, consider I need an accessible modeline (i.e. one with big font and bold weight).
> Reducing the frame or window width makes the lighters at the far end of the modeline
> inaccessible for use.

You can try setting mode-line-compact non-nil.  If even that doesn't
solve your problem because you make your frames too narrow, or have
too many minor mode lighters active at the same time, then there's
nothing else Emacs can do: the fact that the mode line is a single
screen line is currently a hard restriction in the design of the Emacs
display, and so extra mode-line elements are truncated on display.

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[uzibalqa via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

------- Original Message -------
On Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 6:00 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> tags 64597 notabug wontfix
> thanks
> 
> > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2023 21:25:29 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> > 
> > > > When a window is reduced in size I find no way to be able to use the mode-line tools.
> > > 
> > > What do you mean by "mode-line tools", and how short does the
> > > mode-line have to be in order to see the problems you see?
> > > 
> > > IOW, please provide a complete recipe to reproduce this problem,
> > > starting from "emacs -Q", so that the problem and the way to reproduce
> > > it will be clear.
> > > 
> > > Thanks.
> > 
> > Suppose I have a bunch of self-defined minor modes displayed in the modeline,
> > where the lighters have the capability of showing menus (e.g. Outl).
> > 
> > Now, consider I need an accessible modeline (i.e. one with big font and bold weight).
> > Reducing the frame or window width makes the lighters at the far end of the modeline
> > inaccessible for use.
> 
> 
> You can try setting mode-line-compact non-nil. If even that doesn't
> solve your problem because you make your frames too narrow, or have
> too many minor mode lighters active at the same time, then there's
> nothing else Emacs can do: the fact that the mode line is a single
> screen line is currently a hard restriction in the design of the Emacs
> display, and so extra mode-line elements are truncated on display.

The compact setting replaces multiple spaces with a single space.  It does
not really solve the problem.

Wontfix is not a good decision.  Changes window sizes is a very common
occurrence.  Having a hard restriction on the mode-line is quite bad design
to continue working with.   Especially when package-defined and self-defined 
minor modes are becoming quite common.

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:23:40 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> > You can try setting mode-line-compact non-nil. If even that doesn't
> > solve your problem because you make your frames too narrow, or have
> > too many minor mode lighters active at the same time, then there's
> > nothing else Emacs can do: the fact that the mode line is a single
> > screen line is currently a hard restriction in the design of the Emacs
> > display, and so extra mode-line elements are truncated on display.
> 
> The compact setting replaces multiple spaces with a single space.  It does
> not really solve the problem.
> 
> Wontfix is not a good decision.  Changes window sizes is a very common
> occurrence.  Having a hard restriction on the mode-line is quite bad design
> to continue working with.   Especially when package-defined and self-defined 
> minor modes are becoming quite common.

Thanks, noted.

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[uzibalqa via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

------- Original Message -------
On Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 11:23 PM, uzibalqa via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" <bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> wrote:


> ------- Original Message -------
> On Saturday, July 15th, 2023 at 6:00 PM, Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > tags 64597 notabug wontfix
> > thanks
> > 
> > > Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2023 21:25:29 +0000
> > > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > > Cc: 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> > > 
> > > > > When a window is reduced in size I find no way to be able to use the mode-line tools.
> > > > 
> > > > What do you mean by "mode-line tools", and how short does the
> > > > mode-line have to be in order to see the problems you see?
> > > > 
> > > > IOW, please provide a complete recipe to reproduce this problem,
> > > > starting from "emacs -Q", so that the problem and the way to reproduce
> > > > it will be clear.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks.
> > > 
> > > Suppose I have a bunch of self-defined minor modes displayed in the modeline,
> > > where the lighters have the capability of showing menus (e.g. Outl).
> > > 
> > > Now, consider I need an accessible modeline (i.e. one with big font and bold weight).
> > > Reducing the frame or window width makes the lighters at the far end of the modeline
> > > inaccessible for use.
> > 
> > You can try setting mode-line-compact non-nil. If even that doesn't
> > solve your problem because you make your frames too narrow, or have
> > too many minor mode lighters active at the same time, then there's
> > nothing else Emacs can do: the fact that the mode line is a single
> > screen line is currently a hard restriction in the design of the Emacs
> > display, and so extra mode-line elements are truncated on display.
> 
> 
> The compact setting replaces multiple spaces with a single space. It does
> not really solve the problem.
> 
> Wontfix is not a good decision. Changes window sizes is a very common
> occurrence. Having a hard restriction on the mode-line is quite bad design
> to continue working with. Especially when package-defined and self-defined
> minor modes are becoming quite common.
 
Could there be a way to move the lighters around ?

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:41:59 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> Could there be a way to move the lighters around ?

There already is: you can change mode-line-format to show the minor
modes at the beginning of the mode line.

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[uzibalqa via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 12:52 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:41:59 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org, 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> > 
> > Could there be a way to move the lighters around ?
> 
> 
> There already is: you can change mode-line-format to show the minor
> modes at the beginning of the mode line.


I do not think one has control on the order of the minor modes because
they are run-time dependent.  Perhaps the list of lighters could be used
to allow user to change the order.   Although I used mode-line-format
playing with it is not a speedy task.

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 14:10:38 +0000
> From: uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me>
> Cc: 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> 
> 
> ------- Original Message -------
> On Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 12:52 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> > > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:41:59 +0000
> > > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org, 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> > > 
> > > Could there be a way to move the lighters around ?
> > 
> > 
> > There already is: you can change mode-line-format to show the minor
> > modes at the beginning of the mode line.
> 
> 
> I do not think one has control on the order of the minor modes because
> they are run-time dependent.

I didn't mean to change the order of the modes, I meant to move the
entire block of the minor modes more to the left.

bug#64597: mode-line tool inaccessible when window width is small

[uzibalqa via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors]

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 2:44 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:


> > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 14:10:38 +0000
> > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > Cc: 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> > 
> > ------- Original Message -------
> > On Sunday, July 16th, 2023 at 12:52 AM, Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org wrote:
> > 
> > > > Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2023 11:41:59 +0000
> > > > From: uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me
> > > > Cc: Eli Zaretskii eliz@gnu.org, 64597@debbugs.gnu.org
> > > > 
> > > > Could there be a way to move the lighters around ?
> > > 
> > > There already is: you can change mode-line-format to show the minor
> > > modes at the beginning of the mode line.
> > 
> > I do not think one has control on the order of the minor modes because
> > they are run-time dependent.
> 
> 
> I didn't mean to change the order of the modes, I meant to move the
> entire block of the minor modes more to the left.

That's all one can do.  The result is that one is still unable to access
the lighters on the far right side.