From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Turning on savehist-mode by default Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:06:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87wmufm7r7.fsf@catern.com> <87edgmq601.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4405"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "sbaugh@catern.com" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 18 22:07:23 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r4SXC-0000xc-S7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 22:07:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r4SWT-0008UU-OW; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 16:06:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r4SWS-0008TZ-0t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 16:06:36 -0500 Original-Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r4SWP-0006X7-UE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 16:06:35 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0246617.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 3AIHJwfc023046; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:06:29 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=JYt8yh+ohKb6mWxcki0P/w6scAKH8b84S39v8dqFgXs=; b=Jtqh4npLXR5zASfjVsqg/AkjvfpYfGGA0bAoZS8z9T0BLDplqIsccKN2F/rA74iqog72 EW0u2lYH3YpN9Z84F00rPI42NoFa2HqoD30ZVdTCTxq6sWdnUDtAvSzTJivNZYmGi9e5 wz/Ka8pYg07tA96dq29G+Oa4b8CU6VLVCL/IED9MzMsDP9PIJLbSwn9P+NSuJDYsfNUJ Y4krW3sw0WWrcyhMWtPdyJfH90/wn4Rir6ezYPOB3zCkBAWBlCI1hkL9xXbjDhYs+hSK VCcVet0/y3O5JoWFrX1ICrFV3sHOViZExz3Mb1zoo1TNL17gDEgjgqML+EgHefQvKQ41 Tw== Original-Received: from iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta03.appoci.oracle.com [130.35.103.27]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3uentv8mkv-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:06:29 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 3AIHU2cg023706; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:06:28 GMT Original-Received: from nam10-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10lp2100.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.100]) by iadpaimrmta03.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3uekq3rash-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:06:27 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=IsGLYhf3gaVRnO0qKrnhvjk38lI9rsb0Cq8S920mKnAC1Qw9/paItNDqpsasbNa8XpBuMA2Q60Drg9RbMvZPS9ax3h0gq3s0iBxBVuAjbtK1bNc/8G9CHEI0e1JESVtlb2L334CWSjWfgI97WvVhP5HwpNfbtY7ArP4RTna0H3Vgtx0+F3Bs/29WlB8nAdUbJc7Vnget9+piZnEdh7xRbIrCFJ82wxw1ZALHVKNXB754wN8eBAOn6KHGlo5ESdWuiXwizEqgBx3JGbuN++vm95T63+mKEy6KBhj2fkJEA+Osx1GopPmLDBq7WJ7U2ps3jIW4hhtjjPN7hvVASs0nQA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=JYt8yh+ohKb6mWxcki0P/w6scAKH8b84S39v8dqFgXs=; b=Naeu7V//asfOshRIwZUxcq3L5ceae825QOL+owyNEehXIiZiv1cTXryqIUelobtXkph8BZstE0Wne+BmQ8FMERsjbqhg+o4rPiDZK8YJLN69OikyRDJDGliKLKn/tiZuFMsb8Q6hcineMRVcCOKiDcF4eXsMbUKo++1pzOCuDg22d7QsG6/Z6qr+x/gNmp7h0FeHJtwbYp5OwwupawmSOG5I0uOMvsCAOblSDLqVCfzMjrj2gAAxLMsGT5Ifcw91UpLEj3icOYIgLd9CPaNiJTGuU39qPi77PNaEn0Ve17AYQKNmnYqQXzJAoKWFzLnVY7kbO/5e1dBnCvacats6wQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=JYt8yh+ohKb6mWxcki0P/w6scAKH8b84S39v8dqFgXs=; b=cOkS2uwbCeeFRwKRM4PNIFlzoTBlZ3UBrDLz9JI2FVDkJQcdbobua5q/6C2rk9tK4R8P7ZD5vXz6K7ULfiZdYTsdPqS/eYTuIdkewY4e5TrP9tYm0qcC4mVOUxrzoKveVnKQYyGIp6IvNe/guosTfU9GN+0/PQm+Hr0vi5nQ7FU= Original-Received: from CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:355::21) by IA1PR10MB6051.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:388::13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6977.29; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:06:25 +0000 Original-Received: from CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::322b:7466:99e4:e9b7]) by CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::322b:7466:99e4:e9b7%6]) with mapi id 15.20.6977.029; Sat, 18 Nov 2023 21:06:25 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Turning on savehist-mode by default Thread-Index: AQHaGkvBHKNDdk6FWUCQskyh1B3yQbCAjQNA In-Reply-To: <87edgmq601.fsf@posteo.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CO6PR10MB5473:EE_|IA1PR10MB6051:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 1510ef2c-7f4c-43a4-d399-08dbe87a3964 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230031)(39860400002)(346002)(366004)(376002)(136003)(396003)(230922051799003)(451199024)(186009)(1800799012)(64100799003)(26005)(122000001)(38100700002)(55016003)(5660300002)(83380400001)(66899024)(86362001)(38070700009)(6506007)(9686003)(7696005)(71200400001)(478600001)(66946007)(54906003)(76116006)(66476007)(8676002)(66446008)(4326008)(6916009)(66556008)(64756008)(2906002)(52536014)(8936002)(316002)(4744005)(44832011)(33656002)(41300700001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?/dlFsXuIK8O4ljYs3wpIzCo67MBDyztUt4rlLCzCLLL0dfbVFS3dxo93yR6u?= =?us-ascii?Q?ZmXxOj63GxB1CbNsOBXM3oZsvnPJV6/QKLDwQ2nUyiQ7I4wuL4J+Lj6NC+LV?= =?us-ascii?Q?dU5hj+aPDmpsVKtpEJ54KIHK2RwoB0KYLHO62nV4N/fNlLOdl0BxOBoVw67G?= =?us-ascii?Q?5U96OB8t8ro1eamoVYK/8DYyXpRRCcdeESBEMLB8a0zehJEsBy06wv5QuNPj?= =?us-ascii?Q?p6JC+3AvdF4i6IRwTjbsTDjyfZzs+GDk7uODIMyxrqpuLLyDzwhaOngRT42U?= =?us-ascii?Q?+lH91aKWbjVhCiWueWZ1hsbRdQXTY/MgSgKioMCwOH1r4Xql1OgsnFBqnPEd?= =?us-ascii?Q?cp6sOaRbODSL8CBGjKxXDpVRoh13ZMRTFyCEumfUnP+0u+7tkypLX7gadYgQ?= =?us-ascii?Q?35TrsGb2tKZ1eiZcQThA08lJxtMmz9b5xu7Lb48xrAX+jD4uFxZuePXLEdNR?= =?us-ascii?Q?QkjzRtiCCfGIkkVAWYD1TJiVitB4vSYO74LqLBLMgqDPICtvn+Lrq0f+0mhD?= =?us-ascii?Q?BhD9pU7n8aKyssWt2S85rMPSnt098XiNoP0aDL6srPb33gmr7ihQ5Mvb+5mk?= =?us-ascii?Q?E7dWoG03cEgeaCzYWWfBFS2oiSNtvCnTzI9Wi1Vg+C1rHipVYCEDOEhyPOGA?= =?us-ascii?Q?9V X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: a4rwWc/AEtUjZuLubko9oayCeLW0Mp448QrZqfLh1DuTYzQnlLlWmJ7dhD8ANiu8wKdy4n5vmc2xZhuyy19JrDVwH2Ww1RxeSaaaih2xmg0Cwx+9vpXJqKGunx98umrO9Gv5R1gIbH+GwEui9/+4Wzdqv0WX7yuM453SJk7lmq8YriFL0pcd8FL62mVpdumnx9hz5lmPtoIEkI3Lg0uOdsooSl0zHZ0sUD7+hSPu+vy3+YhEY2qSwjCUNKvSUylC+q7EsQ++0G1OdS6u2d4GO1/JR+Mc3GDR5nu0oGNvyruWLDLiH9isxGg1fRmVg7eIifJFxAuAEJNqcTeY6PoeMKu1qJ5vwZNxFLiZmhTTxQ8IOMwo5V1Z2rTjSBn6ONOa7YuTonyE+HafNc2qFaVKll4c3TAOemklZtUP1bQccDf1YPiuqjoTRhR3GdJBtnw+ooOEO6brMxjWNlsxp+L9tSFdeajbzx1RyG9trtWLgaj9s1g6JYn7gNH0kJ+3zcZ//ZYEmdK6lQD+/yvF6siMgoFL67Rf3VNCxHVw2basjr4MIZjRp+s8hmA+gsgZcZigH5Q1aPGN+c2u+5/VtF5zPz8Ur4GGgkWrE6ubWF+SHnh/9ATk5u41iIDlHi8+K5AHylgKLBZok65kz6D0hIUc8uleBTWHRgZUvXMT1CrEO9HNu/3kiuWQsB6MNuPTTiXbCc/ulRVkcKj7a4QhUTf8Z6Ltv5opjXubTkyEDFmagpbi0X zoEKtAfAf1+0X/QmyYBLwAOOwlmxdQyrLpA77DONfBfuzZuLRNkTBufUelvKg= X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: CO6PR10MB5473.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1510ef2c-7f4c-43a4-d399-08dbe87a3964 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Nov 2023 21:06:24.9390 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: Uz6g4iA2wDfu4qkQB3yhwLnWOrEwBKI3m0yCTne+UuZTVJtILxDurx2sRbfsAGDvflyRKvZD2i3VG8YdGm9nIg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: IA1PR10MB6051 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.987,Hydra:6.0.619,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-11-18_18,2023-11-17_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=892 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2311060000 definitions=main-2311180161 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: l1O2Gj93GfzUIANtLpGHyDuSyXWom4jc X-Proofpoint-GUID: l1O2Gj93GfzUIANtLpGHyDuSyXWom4jc Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.165.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312931 Archived-At: > > There are a zillion minor modes that many > > users find useful to turn on by default. > > It doesn't follow that `emacs -Q' should > > turn on any of them by default. >=20 > If something is done by (practically) everyone, Is it? > especially when it is something that (practically) > all beginners would be interested in, How is that known? > I wouldn't dismiss the proposal to enable it by default. I don't dismiss it. > The issue is that beginners neither know how to do it, nor > what all the options are that they might be interested in. And yet it's "done by (practically) everyone"? ___ Let's enable `delete-selection-mode' by default. It took decades to get `transient-mark-mode' ON by default. `delete-selection-mode' completes that job. It welcomes new users with the same type-to-replace behavior they're used to outside Emacs (everywhere). Persists nothing. Is easy for anyone not who doesn't want it ON to turn OFF.