From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Steven Tamm Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs on MAC OS X 10.3 Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:28:19 -0800 Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v553) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1071761481 26901 80.91.224.253 (18 Dec 2003 15:31:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 15:31:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Ted Lemon , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 18 16:31:13 2003 Return-path: Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([80.91.224.244]) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AX07N-0004Us-00 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:31:13 +0100 Original-Received: from monty-python.gnu.org ([199.232.76.173]) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AX07M-000786-00 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:31:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AX134-0004Zm-V0 for emacs-devel@quimby.gnus.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:30:50 -0500 Original-Received: from list by monty-python.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AX12h-0004Wk-Og for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:30:27 -0500 Original-Received: from mail by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.24) id 1AX129-0004H9-29 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:30:25 -0500 Original-Received: from [17.250.248.85] (helo=smtpout.mac.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1AX128-0004GM-48 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:29:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mac.com (smtpin08-en2 [10.13.10.153]) by smtpout.mac.com (Xserve/MantshX 2.0) with ESMTP id hBIFSK5Z029165; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:28:20 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from mac.com (c-67-169-52-219.client.comcast.net [67.169.52.219]) (authenticated bits=0) by mac.com (Xserve/smtpin08/MantshX 3.0) with ESMTP id hBIFSKLA013573; Thu, 18 Dec 2003 07:28:20 -0800 (PST) Original-To: Benjamin Riefenstahl In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.553) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.2 Precedence: list List-Id: Emacs development discussions. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+emacs-devel=quimby.gnus.org@gnu.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:18741 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:18741 >> However, it's not really Aqua emacs - it's Carbon emacs. > I thought that Aqua is the whole GUI system and/or look-and-feel and > Carbon and Cocoa are the APIs? There is a project called emacs-on-aqua that is based on the NeXTStep port. There's a webpage for it here: http://emacs-on-aqua.sourceforge.net/ I think this is what is leading to the confusion. That project was misnamed, and the webpage and the CVS tree do not appear to have been updated in over a year. As far as terms, Quartz is the windowing/compositing system (technically the window manager); Aqua is the GUI (a marketing term); Carbon and Cocoa are APIs to write Aqua apps. >> I'd actually like to add an experimental set of Aqua stubs, although >> given that the Carbon code is quite stable now and also works on >> MacOS 9, I don't think it's time to switch to Aqua yet. > > I think that there once was a NextSTEP port of Emacs, right? But I > guess very little of that code is still usefull today for a recent > Emacs version. When I first had OSX, I started using that "emacs on aqua" port, but found it easier to add my required functionality directly to the main trunk by migrating the event model from the legacy model to the Carbon model. IMHO, there is little benefit that would be derived from switching from Carbon to Cocoa, but there really isn't a need to choose, since use of Carbon and Cocoa (i.e. ObjC) can be intermixed. There is very little functionality that Cocoa exposes that Carbon doesn't, and that's mostly confined to the pasteboard. However, the image APIs in Cocoa are a lot easier to use than the similar APIs in Carbon; so the big missing hole (mac/README) in the port might be easier to write in Cocoa. -Steven