Alt vs Meta - Sun keyboard, redhat linux

Alt vs Meta - Sun keyboard, redhat linux

[chengiz]

Hi,

I use a Sun Type 6 keyboard on a Redhat machine running Gnome. Here,
by default in gnu emacs, the Alt key mapped to M- and the Meta key was
unmapped.

I want like on my older sun machine, to use the Meta key as M- and Alt
key as A-.

In gnome-keyboard-properties, under Layout Options -> Alt/Win key
behaviour, I set "Meta is mapped to the Win-keys". This resulted in
the Meta key being mapped to M- but the Alt key is still mapped to M-.
How do I map the Alt key to A-?

Thank you.

Re: Alt vs Meta - Sun keyboard, redhat linux

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 01.01.2011 um 00:21 schrieb chengiz:

> In gnome-keyboard-properties, under Layout Options -> Alt/Win key
> behaviour, I set "Meta is mapped to the Win-keys". This resulted in
> the Meta key being mapped to M- but the Alt key is still mapped to M-.
> How do I map the Alt key to A-?

I'm not using GNOME.

I'd use xmodmap to change the modifier keys. And I'd use xev to  
determine the key code or symbol name of the keys to change.

In ~/.xinitrc you then can have:

	xmodmap ${HOME}/.xmodmaprc

and .xmodmaprc can have a little "programme" like this:

	clear Mod1
	clear Mod2
	add    Mod1    = Alt_L       Alt_R
	add    Mod2    = Meta_L      Meta_R

--
Greetings

   Pete

It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities  
in our air and water that are doing it.

Re: Alt vs Meta - Sun keyboard, redhat linux

[chengiz]

On Jan 1, 2:35 pm, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyba...@Web.DE> wrote:
> Am 01.01.2011 um 00:21 schrieb chengiz:
>
> > In gnome-keyboard-properties, under Layout Options -> Alt/Win key
> > behaviour, I set "Meta is mapped to the Win-keys". This resulted in
> > the Meta key being mapped to M- but the Alt key is still mapped to M-.
> > How do I map the Alt key to A-?
>
> I'm not using GNOME.
>
> I'd use xmodmap to change the modifier keys. And I'd use xev to  
> determine the key code or symbol name of the keys to change.
>
> In ~/.xinitrc you then can have:
>
>         xmodmap ${HOME}/.xmodmaprc
>
> and .xmodmaprc can have a little "programme" like this:
>
>         clear Mod1
>         clear Mod2
>         add    Mod1    = Alt_L       Alt_R
>         add    Mod2    = Meta_L      Meta_R
>
> --
> Greetings
>
>    Pete
>
> It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities  
> in our air and water that are doing it.

Which of these "Mod?"s does emacs use for its Alt modifier? My current
xmodmap already has Alt_L at Mod1. I want emacs to treat this like
Emacs-alt (ie. the rarely used Alt modifier mentioned at
http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Windows-Keyboard.html)
rather than Emacs-meta.

Re: Alt vs Meta - Sun keyboard, redhat linux

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 03.01.2011 um 21:25 schrieb chengiz:

> Which of these "Mod?"s does emacs use for its Alt modifier? My current
> xmodmap already has Alt_L at Mod1. I want emacs to treat this like
> Emacs-alt (ie. the rarely used Alt modifier mentioned at
> http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Windows-Keyboard.html)
> rather than Emacs-meta.

Why do you think the Alt and Meta key modifiers have something to do  
with MS Losedos?

The Meta modifier is the M in, for example, M-x. M-ESC is ESC-ESC. The  
Meta modifier is accepted by GNU Emacs as the "Meta" modifier.

The Alt modifier can select up to two (two, because with and without  
Shift pressed) character keyboard layouts. On my keyboard, for  
example, Alt-a produces å and Alt-S-a Å. The Alt modifier is accepted  
by GNU Emacs as the "Alt" modifier.

If you want to find out what some "Alt" named key on your keyboard  
produces, then use xev (best launched from a *shell* buffer in GNU  
Emacs), give it the focus and press that key. Xev will produce some  
cryptic output that can be deciphered to some meaning. Similarly  
proceed with the "Meta" titled key on your keyboard. With the  
information of the key codes these keys generate when pressed or  
released, you can reset "key bindings" in X11:

	keycode <whichever> = Alt_R
	keycode <whatever> = Meta_L

Actually my first example was incomplete, because changing the  
sequence of modifiers does not change their meaning because the keys  
have also a keysym by which they are understood.

When you write that you have the Alt_L modifier already defined, then  
find out which key produces this modifier event. Xev can be your  
friend. Once you've located the Alt_L key on your keyboard, you can  
use it in GNU Emacs. The xkeycaps utility might be able to have your  
keyboard layout loaded. Then you'll see graphically what you press.

--
Greetings

   Pete

Ce qui été compris n'existe plus.
				(Paul Eluard)

Re: Alt vs Meta - Sun keyboard, redhat linux

[chengiz]

On Jan 3, 5:53 pm, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyba...@Web.DE> wrote:
> Why do you think the Alt and Meta key modifiers have something to do  
> with MS Losedos?

Where do I think that?


> If you want to find out what some "Alt" named key on your keyboard  
> produces, then use xev (best launched from a *shell* buffer in GNU  
> Emacs), give it the focus and press that key. Xev will produce some  
> cryptic output that can be deciphered to some meaning. Similarly  
> proceed with the "Meta" titled key on your keyboard. With the  
> information of the key codes these keys generate when pressed or  
> released, you can reset "key bindings" in X11:
>
>         keycode <whichever> = Alt_R
>         keycode <whatever> = Meta_L
>

I used xev to verify that the Alt-key produces Alt_L and the 2 meta-
keys produce Meta_L and Meta_R. Emacs treats the meta-keys as if they
produced M- which is what I want, however it also treats the Alt-key
as if produced M-, which is what I want to change to A-. I think the
missing piece is what emacs is doing with Alt_L, as in why it is not
processing it as A-.
Here's my xmodmap output:
shift       Shift_L (0x32),  Shift_R (0x3e)
lock        Caps_Lock (0x42)
control     Control_L (0x25),  Control_R (0x6d)
mod1        Alt_L (0x40),  Alt_R (0x71),  Alt_L (0x7d)
mod2        Num_Lock (0x4d)
mod3
mod4        Meta_L (0x73),  Meta_R (0x74),  Super_L (0x7f),  Hyper_L
(0x80),  Meta_L (0x9c)
mod5        Mode_switch (0x5d),  ISO_Level3_Shift (0x7c)
I cant tell what to put in my xmodmaprc to make sure emacs behaves
correctly.

Thanks,
chengiz

Re: Alt vs Meta - Sun keyboard, redhat linux

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 04.01.2011 um 18:12 schrieb chengiz:

> On Jan 3, 5:53 pm, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyba...@Web.DE> wrote:
>> Why do you think the Alt and Meta key modifiers have something to do
>> with MS Losedos?
>
> Where do I think that?

Because you inserted the link to some  "Windows-Keyboard".

> I think the missing piece is what emacs is doing with Alt_L, as in  
> why it is not processing it as A-.
> Here's my xmodmap output:
> shift       Shift_L (0x32),  Shift_R (0x3e)
> lock        Caps_Lock (0x42)
> control     Control_L (0x25),  Control_R (0x6d)
> mod1        Alt_L (0x40),  Alt_R (0x71),  Alt_L (0x7d)
> mod2        Num_Lock (0x4d)
> mod3
> mod4        Meta_L (0x73),  Meta_R (0x74),  Super_L (0x7f),  Hyper_L
> (0x80),  Meta_L (0x9c)
> mod5        Mode_switch (0x5d),  ISO_Level3_Shift (0x7c)
> I cant tell what to put in my xmodmaprc to make sure emacs behaves
> correctly.


Modifier 5 cannot be Meta, Super, and Hyper altogether.

When you launch GNU Emacs with -Q, without any customisation, does it  
still interpret Alt as Meta? If so, then my assumption about the  
parity of the modifiers is wrong and it plays a role that mod1 is Meta  
and mod2 or mod3 is Alt. Then Hyper and maybe Super can follow, but I  
think Mode_switch is more important, since it's the compose key, which  
allows to type ø as o / etc. Num_Lock can be pretty useless.

In case Alt and Meta work correctly in 'emacs -Q', then something in  
your or your system's customisation (init files) is exchanging them.

--
Greetings

   Pete

When people run around and around in circles we say they are crazy.  
When planets do it we say they are orbiting.

Re: Alt vs Meta - Sun keyboard, redhat linux

[chengiz]

On Jan 4, 5:47 pm, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyba...@Web.DE> wrote:
> Am 04.01.2011 um 18:12 schrieb chengiz:
>
> > On Jan 3, 5:53 pm, Peter Dyballa <Peter_Dyba...@Web.DE> wrote:
> >> Why do you think the Alt and Meta key modifiers have something to do
> >> with MS Losedos?
>
> > Where do I think that?
>
> Because you inserted the link to some  "Windows-Keyboard".
>
> > I think the missing piece is what emacs is doing with Alt_L, as in  
> > why it is not processing it as A-.
> > Here's my xmodmap output:
> > shift       Shift_L (0x32),  Shift_R (0x3e)
> > lock        Caps_Lock (0x42)
> > control     Control_L (0x25),  Control_R (0x6d)
> > mod1        Alt_L (0x40),  Alt_R (0x71),  Alt_L (0x7d)
> > mod2        Num_Lock (0x4d)
> > mod3
> > mod4        Meta_L (0x73),  Meta_R (0x74),  Super_L (0x7f),  Hyper_L
> > (0x80),  Meta_L (0x9c)
> > mod5        Mode_switch (0x5d),  ISO_Level3_Shift (0x7c)
> > I cant tell what to put in my xmodmaprc to make sure emacs behaves
> > correctly.
>
> Modifier 5 cannot be Meta, Super, and Hyper altogether.
>
> When you launch GNU Emacs with -Q, without any customisation, does it  
> still interpret Alt as Meta? If so, then my assumption about the  
> parity of the modifiers is wrong and it plays a role that mod1 is Meta  
> and mod2 or mod3 is Alt. Then Hyper and maybe Super can follow, but I  
> think Mode_switch is more important, since it's the compose key, which  
> allows to type ø as o / etc. Num_Lock can be pretty useless.
>
> In case Alt and Meta work correctly in 'emacs -Q', then something in  
> your or your system's customisation (init files) is exchanging them.
>

There is no difference with -Q, it still interprets Alt as Meta.

Re: Alt vs Meta - Sun keyboard, redhat linux

[Peter Dyballa]

Am 05.01.2011 um 00:17 schrieb chengiz:

> There is no difference with -Q, it still interprets Alt as Meta.

Are you going to change the sequence of the modifier definitions? (You  
don't need to restart GNU Emacs, it will receive the new changed key  
events.)

Mine is sparse:

	shift       Shift_L (0x40),  Shift_R (0x44)
	lock        Caps_Lock (0x41)
	control     Control_L (0x43),  Control_R (0x46)
	mod1
	mod2        Meta_L (0x3f),  Meta_R (0x47)
	mod3
	mod4
	mod5

...not a desktop computer!

--
Greetings

   Pete

To drink without thirst and to make love all the time, madam, it is  
only these which distinguish us from the other beasts.
				– Beaumarchais