From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: binding ibuffer to C-x C-b by default Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2010 17:57:49 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8F022F3B2C5D4C2AB8A90CBDD7660FF1@us.oracle.com> <878w29a5ns.fsf@catnip.gol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1286500162 32251 80.91.229.12 (8 Oct 2010 01:09:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 01:09:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'Dan Nicolaescu' , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Miles Bader'" , "'Deniz Dogan'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 08 03:09:19 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1P41SX-0005kx-QN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2010 03:09:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57753 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P41IF-0005AA-RY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 20:58:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=48040 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1P41IA-0005A3-F4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 20:58:35 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P41I9-0006ve-6G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 20:58:34 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:63123) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1P41I7-0006v7-Cy; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 20:58:31 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o980wR81004576 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 8 Oct 2010 00:58:29 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt353.oracle.com (acsmt353.oracle.com [141.146.40.153]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o97Nb72f003595; Fri, 8 Oct 2010 00:58:27 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt016.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 672725401286499464; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 17:57:44 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/130.35.178.194) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Thu, 07 Oct 2010 17:57:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <878w29a5ns.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Thread-Index: Actmf9dYY1I7N6NaREi0c3wPpMhxfQAAFi1w X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:131453 Archived-At: > Drew is technically correct, in that it's not a _perfect_ superset. > > But it's so damned close that 99% of the users will never even notice > that something's changed, and I'd guess that the number of people that > will benefit from the additional functionality/features will vastly > outstrip those who are devastated that their favorite list-buffers > keybinding has changed. > > Some of the differences are fairly easy to fix -- e.g., list-buffers > uses whizzy new-style header-line headers, whereas ibuffer uses > oldskool simple fixed-width headers. Some of the keybinding > differences can also easily be resolved; the only hard cases are a few > keybindings that can't be made compatible because ibuffer uses those > keys for something else. > > Anyway, as I say, while the differences exist, they're for the most > part simply irrelevant. The right thing to do is to simply switch to > ibuffer, and then fix stuff up as the need arises (or somebody gets > the itch to do so). Miles, you were the one who proposed previously that we switch `C-x C-b' to ibuffer, so this is no surprise. We went through all of this before. What's new that implies we should change what was concluded before about it? I asked for a reference to the thread or threads that Dan hinted at, but none has been presented so far. Let's at least be able to see what was said and decided, if we're compelled to go through this all over again. Seriously, can someone point us to the thread(s)? It's not so easy to search for the topic, perhaps, since "ibuffer" is a substring of "minibuffer". I seem to recall that there was consensus that we should add missing features to one or the other, instead of simply switching. But I don't recall the details. I don't agree with the characterization you make wrt the features, but I do agree that much of the functionality of ibuffer would be good to make available to the buffer menu. Most of those features are simply commands, IIRC, and should thus be relatively easy to add to buff-menu.el, while keeping the basic UI of the latter. I've made other, orthogonal, extensions to buff-menu.el, which could also be included. I much prefer the buffer-menu UI, especially as I extended it, to the UI of ibuffer. I have no problem with addition of ibuffer commands (regexp markings etc.) to buff-menu, however. On the contrary, they would be a welcome addition. I'm in favor of thus giving the buffer menu more Dired-like behavior. I'm not in favor of simply swapping the buffer menu (`C-x C-b') for ibuffer. Let's start with a refresher of what was said before about this topic, if someone can point to the thread. For those interested, a description of my extensions to the buffer menu is here: http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/BufferMenuPlus.