* please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil
@ 2009-06-12 17:16 Drew Adams
2009-06-13 0:14 ` Johan Bockgård
2009-07-15 16:34 ` please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil Stefan Monnier
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2009-06-12 17:16 UTC (permalink / raw
To: 'Emacs-Devel devel'
This new variable should not have been given a non-nil default value. Non-nil
overrides the user's preference as expressed via `truncate-lines'.
If a user has nil `truncate-lines' (which is still the _default_ value), then
lines should not be truncated. End of story. That's the meaning of
`truncate-lines' (always has been).
If you want the new variable `truncate-partial-width-windows' to override the
`truncate-lines' behavior, then let it do so for only a *non*-nil value of
`truncate-lines'.
Actually, the most reasonable approach might be to not introduce a new option
(with the confusion of variable interaction and override), but simply to let
`truncate-lines have three possible (buffer-local) values:
nil - never truncate lines in the current buffer
t - always truncate lines in the current buffer
integer - do what integer `truncate-partial-width-windows' does today
(Customize sets the default value, not the buffer-local value, of course.)
Regardless of what you think of that suggestion, the important thing is this: If
`truncate-lines' is nil, then please just do what it says: do not truncate
lines, period.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil
2009-06-12 17:16 please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil Drew Adams
@ 2009-06-13 0:14 ` Johan Bockgård
2009-06-13 0:27 ` please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windowsto nil Drew Adams
2009-07-15 16:34 ` please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil Stefan Monnier
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Johan Bockgård @ 2009-06-13 0:14 UTC (permalink / raw
To: emacs-devel
"Drew Adams" <drew.adams@oracle.com> writes:
> This new variable
has existed since 1985.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* RE: please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windowsto nil
2009-06-13 0:14 ` Johan Bockgård
@ 2009-06-13 0:27 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2009-06-13 0:27 UTC (permalink / raw
To: 'Johan "Bockgård"', emacs-devel
> > This new variable
> has existed since 1985.
You're right. And with value t, no less.
What is new is the default value of 50.
I stand corrected.
(I still think a non-nil default value is wrong, FWIW, for the reasons I gave.)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil
2009-06-12 17:16 please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil Drew Adams
2009-06-13 0:14 ` Johan Bockgård
@ 2009-07-15 16:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-07-16 2:59 ` Miles Bader
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2009-07-15 16:34 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 'Emacs-Devel devel'
> Actually, the most reasonable approach might be to not introduce a new
> option (with the confusion of variable interaction and override), but
> simply to let `truncate-lines have three possible (buffer-local)
> values:
> nil - never truncate lines in the current buffer
> t - always truncate lines in the current buffer
> integer - do what integer `truncate-partial-width-windows' does today
I think this would make a lot of sense.
I.e. first extend truncate-lines so it can take an integer value, then
mark truncate-partial-width-windows as obsolete.
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil
2009-07-15 16:34 ` please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil Stefan Monnier
@ 2009-07-16 2:59 ` Miles Bader
2009-07-16 14:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-07-16 16:47 ` Drew Adams
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Miles Bader @ 2009-07-16 2:59 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Drew Adams, 'Emacs-Devel devel'
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
>> nil - never truncate lines in the current buffer
>> t - always truncate lines in the current buffer
>> integer - do what integer `truncate-partial-width-windows' does today
>
> I think this would make a lot of sense.
> I.e. first extend truncate-lines so it can take an integer value, then
> mark truncate-partial-width-windows as obsolete.
Eh, why is that better?
`truncate-partial-width-windows' has always[*] been essentially an
"exception for a funny situation", and wedging its functionality into
`truncate-lines' merely complicates things for typical code which really
only cares about the normal case, not the exceptional one.
Currently a mode only needs to worry about setting truncate-lines to t
(or toggling between nil and t in the case of Gnus, etc), if truncating
lines is somehow better for that mode. I your suggestion is followed,
such modes will suddenly have to worry about such details as the proper
width at which point "emergency truncation" goes into effect -- and I
would argue that most modes just don't care about such detail (if a mode
_does_ care about that, it's easy enough to set both variables).
[*] and of course `truncate-partial-width-windows' has been around for
decades, with a non-nil default; I dunno why Drew is freaking out about
it _now_...
-Miles
--
Logic, n. The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the
limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding.
n
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil
2009-07-16 2:59 ` Miles Bader
@ 2009-07-16 14:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-07-16 14:37 ` Miles Bader
2009-07-16 16:47 ` Drew Adams
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier @ 2009-07-16 14:10 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Miles Bader; +Cc: Drew Adams, 'Emacs-Devel devel'
>> I think this would make a lot of sense.
>> I.e. first extend truncate-lines so it can take an integer value, then
>> mark truncate-partial-width-windows as obsolete.
> Eh, why is that better?
This way it also applies in the case where your narrow windows are the
result of your tiling window manager creating narrow frames rather than
a wide frame split into narrow windows.
> `truncate-partial-width-windows' has always[*] been essentially an
> "exception for a funny situation", and wedging its functionality into
> `truncate-lines' merely complicates things for typical code which really
> only cares about the normal case, not the exceptional one.
I can't see which complication you're referring to.
> Currently a mode only needs to worry about setting truncate-lines to t
> (or toggling between nil and t in the case of Gnus, etc), if truncating
> lines is somehow better for that mode. I your suggestion is followed,
I only know of modes that set it to t, and for those there's
no difference. Which code ever sets it to nil?
> [*] and of course `truncate-partial-width-windows' has been around for
> decades, with a non-nil default; I dunno why Drew is freaking out about
> it _now_...
Yes, I'm not worried about that indeed, I just feel like using 2 vars,
the second of which is only used in some cases but not all is
rather odd.
Maybe another option is to make truncate-partial-width-windows apply to
full-width windows as well when its value is an integer (so it also
applies when your window-manager makes your frames narrow).
Stefan
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil
2009-07-16 14:10 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2009-07-16 14:37 ` Miles Bader
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Miles Bader @ 2009-07-16 14:37 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: Drew Adams, 'Emacs-Devel devel'
Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> writes:
> I only know of modes that set it to t, and for those there's
> no difference. Which code ever sets it to nil?
Gnus has a command that toggles it between t and nil.
> Maybe another option is to make truncate-partial-width-windows apply to
> full-width windows as well when its value is an integer (so it also
> applies when your window-manager makes your frames narrow).
Sure, that seems to work; a new name would be called for I
think... (truncate-narrow-windows?)
-Miles
--
`...the Soviet Union was sliding in to an economic collapse so comprehensive
that in the end its factories produced not goods but bads: finished products
less valuable than the raw materials they were made from.' [The Economist]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* RE: please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil
2009-07-16 2:59 ` Miles Bader
2009-07-16 14:10 ` Stefan Monnier
@ 2009-07-16 16:47 ` Drew Adams
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Drew Adams @ 2009-07-16 16:47 UTC (permalink / raw
To: 'Miles Bader', 'Stefan Monnier'
Cc: 'Emacs-Devel devel'
> and of course `truncate-partial-width-windows' has been around for
> decades, with a non-nil default; I dunno why Drew is freaking
> out about it _now_...
Drew is not freaking out about anything.
_You_ seem to be freaking out about this.
Drew said the following, as soon as Johan reminded him that
`truncate-partial-width-windows' is not new:
> You're right. And with value t, no less.
> What is new is the default value of 50.
> I stand corrected.
>
> (I still think a non-nil default value is wrong, FWIW, for
> the reasons I gave.)
That was Drew's second, and last, input to this thread.
If that's "freaking out", then I hate to think what your alarmist and ad hominem
reaction is.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-07-16 16:47 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-06-12 17:16 please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil Drew Adams
2009-06-13 0:14 ` Johan Bockgård
2009-06-13 0:27 ` please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windowsto nil Drew Adams
2009-07-15 16:34 ` please change default value of truncate-partial-width-windows to nil Stefan Monnier
2009-07-16 2:59 ` Miles Bader
2009-07-16 14:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-07-16 14:37 ` Miles Bader
2009-07-16 16:47 ` Drew Adams
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