From: Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: "Daniel Brooks" <db48x@db48x.net>,
"Clément Pit-Claudel" <cpitclaudel@gmail.com>,
"Stefan Kangas" <stefan@marxist.se>,
"Stefan Monnier" <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
"Emacs developers" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful, a simple solution
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 02:35:04 +0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAP_d_8Xhji9uhDXQubcTLY9zPxpu5zV6V51SVhddJo0i1hxziQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83ee7xgio2.fsf@gnu.org>
On Thu, 4 Nov 2021 at 02:09, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> Do you read Hebrew?
No. I just imagine how I’d perceive the text if I could.
> Those characters look like line noise there,
> whereas the text with the default display is perfectly readable, and
> most people won't even know these controls are there (as intended).
TUTORIAL.he is slightly special, in that both an editor and a
reader[^1] use the same mode (because once in a while the user is
instructed to edit some part of their copy). In most other cases, I
prefer remaps turned on when I’m an editor or reviewer, and off when
I’m a reader.
[^1]: Here, by “editor” and “reader” I mean the human roles, not software.
> > One does not only want to highlight, but also to actually see and
> > distinguish certain characters
>
> What for? The absolute majority of people won't have any idea what is
> the effect of each of these controls, and how it differs from others.
> Even I many times need to talk myself through their effect on display.
> The UBA spec weighs in at more than 30 pages of highly technical text,
> and I don't expect people to memorize it by heart.
Most people, when in the reader role, probably won’t and shouldn’t have to.
If I’m editing a text in a bidi language, though, I am expected to use
format control characters, and so I must know where they are or are
not. In the same vein, when I edit a program expected to conform to a
coding style, I must know where spaces and tabs are, so I do not
introduce whitespace-only changes or trailing blanks and keep
indentation consistent. Or when I edit anything that will end up as a
web page I want to know which spaces and hyphens are non-breaking, so
the page will wrap correctly no matter how the user resizes their
window and/or zooms the page. (No, I do not trust tools to do these
things right; if they could, we would not need format control
characters at all. I like tools to let me check what they did and
correct if necessary.)
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-11-03 19:35 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 172+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-11-02 12:57 Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-11-02 13:18 ` Po Lu
2021-11-02 13:54 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-02 14:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 15:21 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-02 16:24 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-11-02 16:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 17:01 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-02 17:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 18:43 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-02 18:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 19:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-02 19:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 19:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-02 19:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 21:28 ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful, a simple solution Daniel Brooks
2021-11-03 13:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 17:41 ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 17:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 18:20 ` Juri Linkov
2021-11-03 19:02 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 19:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:58 ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 20:21 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 20:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 21:16 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 7:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 9:06 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 9:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 9:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 8:44 ` Juri Linkov
2021-11-03 18:45 ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 19:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:35 ` Yuri Khan [this message]
2021-11-03 20:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 20:45 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 20:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 21:23 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 6:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 8:53 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 9:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:54 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-03 20:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 6:00 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-04 7:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 9:14 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 9:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 10:41 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 11:03 ` Po Lu
2021-11-04 11:27 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 11:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 11:34 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 13:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 14:10 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 16:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 17:04 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 19:16 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-05 23:31 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-06 7:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 19:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-04 19:55 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 23:32 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 19:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 20:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 2:23 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05 3:52 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05 5:21 ` code annotations Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05 5:53 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05 5:23 ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful, a simple solution Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05 6:13 ` Po Lu
2021-11-05 7:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 8:00 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05 8:07 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 9:58 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05 12:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 13:08 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05 14:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 23:33 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-06 0:54 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-06 10:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 10:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-08 19:58 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-08 20:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-08 21:59 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-09 3:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 13:58 ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2021-11-06 15:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 17:09 ` Benjamin Riefenstahl
2021-11-06 17:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 8:09 ` tomas
2021-11-06 1:09 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05 8:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 9:34 ` Juri Linkov
2021-11-04 19:05 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 21:13 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-04 6:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 20:18 ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful Tim Cross
2021-11-03 0:28 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 1:07 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 1:59 ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-03 13:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 9:59 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 11:19 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-03 11:31 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 12:20 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 12:41 ` tomas
2021-11-03 13:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 14:46 ` tomas
2021-11-03 17:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 17:34 ` tomas
2021-11-03 13:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:45 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 14:29 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 14:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 16:01 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 17:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 17:53 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 11:29 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-11-03 18:47 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 18:52 ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 19:19 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 19:28 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 19:32 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-03 19:41 ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-03 20:12 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 22:03 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-04 8:50 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-11-03 19:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 19:34 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-11-03 19:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 18:53 ` Manuel Giraud
2021-11-03 19:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 21:15 ` Manuel Giraud
2021-11-04 6:56 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-04 19:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 13:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 19:26 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-02 19:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 19:49 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-02 18:16 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-11-02 18:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 19:17 ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-02 19:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 17:24 ` [authors: default bidi-display-reordering is set to t] (was: Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful) Uwe Brauer
2021-11-02 17:37 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 14:31 ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters considered harmful Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 15:13 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-02 13:42 ` tomas
2021-11-02 14:57 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-02 14:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 14:43 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-11-03 15:07 ` Reini Urban
2021-11-03 15:43 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-04 7:50 ` Reini Urban
2021-11-04 8:21 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-03 17:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-02 14:57 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-05 18:53 ` Unicode confusables " Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-11-05 20:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 11:56 ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-11-06 12:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-06 13:10 ` Vasilij Schneidermann
2021-11-06 13:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-05 21:36 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-11-10 15:47 ` Unicode confusables and reordering characters " Dmitry Gutov
2021-11-10 17:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-10 17:15 ` Dmitry Gutov
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