From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 22:39:55 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87vbzqfgd6.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <83vbzkcx20.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1385134807 19412 80.91.229.3 (22 Nov 2013 15:40:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 15:40:07 +0000 (UTC) Cc: ttn@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , Drew Adams , rms@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 22 16:40:12 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vjsq1-0005vf-GQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 16:40:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39586 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vjsq1-0000QS-4b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:40:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51213) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vjspx-0000Om-Lk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:40:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vjspt-0005cp-Gk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:40:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qa0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c00::231]:64357) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vjspo-0005al-99; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:39:56 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id ii20so3827460qab.1 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 07:39:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=oXhC7Z+exMKGmd0q5Jqp+DtjiT/Qt74cZTQY1DIFVgE=; b=YuP04AIvF6u4W5lRd2NJ0AHZ5HHQCm3/2fO/Nm9yTTuCaZ2EdwxAqjmZhJVO6jINoo gyDYKIHwY21YAO8kwnWbshZuJOAaq0j7x/HRw7G8DLQLSbEhfQP52DpWIWlxE1YrN6Ay THfGcw4BhOYJlNc7gPc1Z8Oy5eDBdN+w/JOV1shVc/HUkdT5xggUJhWlNIqsMOo2WC8y +jprD7Cxpknzn48zsBMDH+AOS4drkOWKnUqap+L2dAW9unYqgfupH+LftE+3tFN/6RqH ivLVQcYl53z7E984OEeI6mSV73xTZdST7YJQbXu0DN28i2hvon8hZYqib9mE+NSDBaZU V8BA== X-Received: by 10.49.24.202 with SMTP id w10mr23131901qef.12.1385134795528; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 07:39:55 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.96.179.36 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 07:39:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83vbzkcx20.fsf@gnu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: -XT0e-BvTiyNDbQnCnzLnarD1Qk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:165567 Archived-At: On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > I guess you've never used any of the *Office word processors, because > they allow this quite easily: there's a font selection combo on the > tool bar, and a size selection combo right next to it. Yes, and those, along with the buttons, are a sure way to create an unmaintainable document. It is easy and predictable at first and is fine if you only need to hack up a quick page, print it out and not even bother to save it. But when writing any kind of a long-lived document, direct formatting is a curse. I have often said that the one way to fix Word is to have all direct formatting controls hidden by default, and only allow style-based formatting. (This is roughly equivalent to stripping HTML Transitional down to HTML Strict and doing all styling via CSS.)