From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Variable-width font indentation Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 14:05:09 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87inaiss6l.fsf@web.de> <6FCF6ACA-4F29-4B6B-BE9D-D7130C6E9495@gnu.org> <87fu5moe4c.fsf@web.de> <877eqyocro.fsf@web.de> <83zi3uz4nb.fsf@gnu.org> <0b1dd3fa-e0b0-ed20-a256-dd92d1c1826f@dancol.org> <8bc3c4c7-dfc7-987a-95e7-bd309e2326c6@cs.ucla.edu> <03118DC0-39DA-4AB5-980E-A33809B9A5EE@raeburn.org> <83vaeas8uz.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1520406284 2585 195.159.176.226 (7 Mar 2018 07:04:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2018 07:04:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , Emacs developers To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 07 08:04:40 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1etT7q-0007xX-EV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 08:04:34 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59999 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etT9t-0003Is-8j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 02:06:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34761) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etT8p-0003HV-8x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 02:05:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etT8o-0001oA-Bx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 02:05:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ot0-x22e.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22e]:34135) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1etT8m-0001ld-IA; Wed, 07 Mar 2018 02:05:32 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ot0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id n74so1162282ota.1; Tue, 06 Mar 2018 23:05:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=heY32s6lwEGM5EWLNDfIgdrvvPKt7Gu7iVQcJRLgBuU=; b=KWwMQtybOyJpxQ6w4V15+O730EqK2jymMAxACqM6BpIXqfbCYhy+N1vFA0DQpHiWjp 80NNqlq75cv6uXIgAE65DGlMeNVxPXTU9nmLjkC2wFugNgWdSvLjhcAPgum1jt/iuzP3 T0SMJlW20aiLmi7tGu7m/BgSc2o8VdX2YpaufjKopSHkUfvuSk8WQV8ghAe91YaaMmFs 6BSQ4lel9bYIBYYkcfFDkBW2Hvqv+KmiDFdIt9YJmDrl8pjnF8ugUNTnKFapGeakJvbG dt3QQrWddsxct80djtN6GSfYIESm6YaZn88mBA5nxbyzTDUofjCTEg7dL4btyr8smq/F ftDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=heY32s6lwEGM5EWLNDfIgdrvvPKt7Gu7iVQcJRLgBuU=; b=IklV2hTgwmcGzfk+xhLqynVUCRcGAPSqlCcaV6GPgok5F2P33mS82XAGAuUAJw+UtN 5O5lyXPQOJI7sGaKdvTMjQ1LvpiJVFmGk6NCa+q2x26GQXdeXj1vBmbjI/ZJvBdhf9e/ 6YJ8grvEup6qu0ZpqS69RmJ4jTU3X7/a9v4hSHEWLO9VuKNuxo5DIuheGn6TKNlFHZHk OvTGLu9bMXRLwvv+rXTysPWonzGatGyDz09KbwFt6qxAa9cwJBhjUJik23+Mf3jm0vWj SmVIEUkGuB9YZPL8Pnx46xViPqqZ5PaoDxPkWIsKyt18Wt76P/2uDqmLxMADzNpR4Ksg uhUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AElRT7FPMo0hjPrKn12RtMqg8FppUsZKxZ0TNylIo+K7+clA7Xmyc/x9 8AKF64rb/XKKQGHIXPyq5cI4Jw4nYNApwAc2WvWTYg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELt3g3aQPiFIv4xbJzXdyom8os1Snwd9+XwGJSy5zPIeKJ8bgoHwP+ZwxdDshDxXzQ4KVRuEyHYNG+GLFP2/sDo= X-Received: by 10.157.86.226 with SMTP id b31mr14389622otj.209.1520406329517; Tue, 06 Mar 2018 23:05:29 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.74.211.77 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Mar 2018 23:05:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: _ApZPrckG2QJK2Bn7kYT2UHoNmQ X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:223401 Archived-At: On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 3:55 AM, Richard Stallman wrote: > shr is a facility that renders HTML. > I'm talking about using M-q to do filling > that looks good with variable-width fonts. For word processing purposes, you should not need manual or semi-automated filling such as M-q provides. Proper word processing operates two level of abstraction higher. Level +0: you directly affect where words end up using spaces and line feeds. This is the level that M-q works on. Level +1: you specify a paper size for the document or a sections, and, for each paragraph, a left margin, a right margin, a font, and a paragraph alignment (left, center, right, or justified). The layout engine automatically chops the paragraph into lines for display and print purposes according to these settings. Level +2: you do not specify individual formatting settings on each paragraph; instead, you specify a paragraph style that specifies all these things. (Like Emacs faces provide a level of indirection for face attributes.) So: you don=E2=80=99t fill a paragraph with a left margin of 30 spaces and = a right margin at position 72. You designate the paragraph as Addressee, and the Addressee style specifies a left margin of 50% paper width and inherits its right margin of 1 inch from the Default style. All of which is, of course, achievable with HTML + CSS (or a moral equivalent). WYSIWYG editing for that is possible but 20 years of observation show that users of WYSIWYG systems tend to produce (at best) level +1 documents rather than +2.