From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: put input focus on active minibuffer Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 10:34:15 +0600 Message-ID: References: <871t8fdhbn.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455510884 7600 80.91.229.3 (15 Feb 2016 04:34:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2016 04:34:44 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Katsumi Yamaoka , Alexis , Emacs developers To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 15 05:34:43 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aVAry-0004e2-89 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 15 Feb 2016 05:34:42 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56362 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVArx-0002Dr-K0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 23:34:41 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35250) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVArt-0002Df-VZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 23:34:38 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVArs-0006lg-Uc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 23:34:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-x230.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c07::230]:36687) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aVArs-0006la-Lv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 23:34:36 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id 78so81624557lfy.3 for ; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 20:34:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BuIHdewAjbAcfWVNA+4/2aNDi1qsmSfeQAxaGSTDu3A=; b=mNpo1a/+3LKmalwOV2oaHp8/oBX6Bfw8Q1hW6QHgEARFDFS3SocvxQKRWOaw4mb8l3 z6+IY4SOHkR3VU72LMIaA9if1rAVnOl0cbGCkND93FNf9sBgAHPUkkFZRQLgaVdG5DY8 pBzSpgHyQJjaqciRruoijuQxdeX4Y0p7VQuug+5LJYGEnW8vUVoedRQcvEXzz+wThq4p g8MWZYjBF/memF6pSG4souFYCMaqeKWPb0Y1TfRMfw/lzTuB5pF+OOJO79Nfw9MJVPnd Fi4N/7KtZz8O+UqR+Vyds0S+QSgqJ1yK5tHFiMFD5LVzubxJw6e9y3txWQW7IzXHg22o vs0Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=BuIHdewAjbAcfWVNA+4/2aNDi1qsmSfeQAxaGSTDu3A=; b=Dai81SCEDbmRG9aKYWNN4keXWu5bGlKUQTBf8L8F9MX+q84LuzuJWTbz5FGnRljUr9 UZDKT6I8WyHPtfTBXrmD4+OhsC78sW6G5dWMQ7ozdyNRlZ+bb7ySSOBfC8J/SE8CWvyA FcVA2J0W6o9dMrcpkmOT42B1tB+X117Mxun/UxcY9J/IBpnM1OtDfm6yubzhEp18yt7f SXXrmyJoHWYs0D2hue1VU0P/4WYVKdiKW59PN3Y3W/iDRWdWH2AdG8SSRhCS9+outXiC FNuaOQnWhkA4sUssgzSFco7rdb9fQqEPBYSLAW5pajdL16O+1slb1HLFdwdCJW8YaQkR URXQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AG10YOQ7B6wnc63KTHXXg0dfq3VpC0vo7b8Tvc8kILQKJZBGySNEmJynTy6gfKWDnsUYhF1CHE3xBFwUNxqUbg== X-Received: by 10.25.90.3 with SMTP id o3mr4652389lfb.166.1455510875353; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 20:34:35 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.112.239.42 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Feb 2016 20:34:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-Google-Sender-Auth: y4Wdl8693fuSB-c3WGqw08NfaPw X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c07::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:199952 Archived-At: On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 10:54 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > A user needs to be able to interact with other windows directly, > whatever frame they are in. This interaction needs to be able > to include inserting text etc. - actions that require that > window to have the focus. > > Users need to be able to change the focus to anywhere they > like when the minibuffer is active. Just because it is active > and the user will want to interact with it, does not mean that > the user should not be able to interact with other window as > well. I think there could be a useful middle ground, which is probably what Katsumi meant. A user clicks on an inactive frame which has an active minibuffer. That frame is activated and the minibuffer focused. The idea is that the user=E2=80=99s mental model for an inactive frame is that of an opaque box. A user clicks in an inactive window in the active frame which has an active minibuffer. Now the window which was clicked is activated. This way, to activate a window other than the minibuffer in an inactive frame which has an active minibuffer, the user has to click twice. In my practice, this case is sufficiently rare that the utility of Fitts=E2=80=99 law outweighs the cost of this additional click. Especially = in an overlapping windowing system where the minibuffer of an inactive frame might not even be exposed, and therefore not directly clickable.