From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default (WAS: Some developement questions) Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 23:16:04 +0700 Message-ID: References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <3ce41c60-7d2e-45b6-99bd-2276aea04c90@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536337310 7302 195.159.176.226 (7 Sep 2018 16:21:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 16:21:50 +0000 (UTC) Cc: hw@adminart.net, spacibba@aol.com, Phil Sainty , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Eli Zaretskii , Phillip Lord To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 07 18:21:45 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyJVw-0001lj-RK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 18:21:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39482 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyJY3-0003os-1t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 12:23:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53735) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyJQx-0006YY-8d for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 12:16:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyJQw-00054c-0L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 12:16:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi0-x22a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a]:38546) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyJQn-0004U7-Bg; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 12:16:27 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id x197-v6so28246438oix.5; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 09:16:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=byk/JtCKsizGCQSDmKVyWs+LXbvNMqDb1ORwyBCs3og=; b=ZUmifsuEQKA/DLW3yEla2UfwNTXB0E93ynPHMQgoc7IXtkHt6khk9HJw0porpLjI52 tZyhNER96n4oIDtoG4N3OL8vSA99FyYInjYO7rOBPugw3OdYwvNNCxgXVCkn4Ujh4/D2 w8pFmT0w2YKnce8COTfnTstLIg8AMWDaVFjZ960muw2shey8CC5ArJBJZ90qXrUJyRHp Q6+tpjHhlQlkZQqFnePwAIwH0QSXUxzMsc5t/+BHUqX8UpMfqBMjGRv/oxq93t53zzzJ dmXfxGKT5yNR9jtrDRKkherIsJokVjagd0eFvP7OvOpRRpd+J2f0tGKNKYKLF2HH1g8f YQcw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=byk/JtCKsizGCQSDmKVyWs+LXbvNMqDb1ORwyBCs3og=; b=hizEBnoEGfEKPuMowcFqnuzvY5H+59E17j9+Uoo1+8n5AP/cAL8mXIGQD2WtLPC9Rf 1R+Ks5P0J4AnnDXPqL1QsxC2pVeGzJZp5zi4qyYS23mlwyDyeLm3UsGyOa/XtqKzfiIX yCFr7LKtlbel4/SJdopeufIhX+iTcSpvlNdwb7SEFDwRTs3XuN8GfHBWGrELG5Hyv4dH 9Z9bAC05EtqxDX5Odrw8mqGFEVutq+2RchFaX+wblXpp01+Flv50Ipabln2lUcak/QYj z0eSf7ZzB6I8unuS4ypg+5oU+nPj2hg+tJRk4wP1YrgiRjqCsHT7PapYCwleUlJS+0+5 A1wQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51Be6q/els3psn8F7vTFnxb8NJXPszbeL6x4klW/MRhuMK51kmSW UEUEAnchGsHEmzySgO8xTMmNQLTgUjOVPuTjbwY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdbbTGF8CBx69K1rrwtIqeX6IxPJP5tX3OgI1tf9f8+Z0ZGobnXyrzaSX1cOMFKMWsZP8xoTxjG0z17f9ueYMro= X-Received: by 2002:aca:4802:: with SMTP id v2-v6mr9113443oia.259.1536336977540; Fri, 07 Sep 2018 09:16:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3ce41c60-7d2e-45b6-99bd-2276aea04c90@default> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229426 Archived-At: On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 10:37 PM Drew Adams wrote: > Exactly the same reasoning was presented in arguments against > turning on `transient-mark-mode' by default. My experience with other editors says the following three features are closely related. (The terminology varies from editor to editor, of course.) 1a) Region selection is persistent. You can mark a region, then move point outside of it and it stays highlighted and active. 1b) Region selection is transient. As soon as you move point in a way other than extending selection, it is deactivated. 2a) Newly entered text is inserted at point without affecting the selected region, whether or not it is active. Backspace and Delete keys affect the characters before and after point. 2b) Newly entered text replaces the selected region. Backspace and Delete keys delete the selected region. 3a) You select a region by pressing a key (or key combination or sequence), at one end, then moving point to the other end and pressing another key there. 3b) You select a region by moving point with Shift held down. Many =E2=80=9Cclassic=E2=80=9D editors had [1a, 2a, 3a]. Most =E2=80=9Cmode= rn=E2=80=9D editors have [1b, 2b, 3b]. These two combinations are consistent and useful. Mixing and matching may feel weird and/or invite mistakes. E.g., mixing 1a with 2b, you can have a persistent region, then move point so that you no longer see the region, so you effectively forget you have an active region. Then, typing new text and having it replace the region is surprising, in a bad way.