From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: RTF for emacs Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 12:27:49 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87fvk012fi.fsf@debian.uxu> <8761kw58n4.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <87a9a79gvk.fsf@debian.uxu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1400995693 8343 80.91.229.3 (25 May 2014 05:28:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 05:28:13 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 25 07:28:08 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WoQyd-0001dh-AU for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:28:07 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50394 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WoQyc-0001qw-Dl for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 01:28:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52542) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WoQyS-0001qp-26 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 01:27:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WoQyM-00079v-OF for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 01:27:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qc0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c01::231]:63970) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WoQyM-00079f-Jo for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 01:27:50 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qc0-f177.google.com with SMTP id i17so10366194qcy.36 for ; Sat, 24 May 2014 22:27:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=5DuZEdmsHe07nONf0GXaX8qGKPFtYMNMYUhYd7ep+mQ=; b=Uy7lcawVSgHqz6mjCAqDB2QTPnnpPL95ZWFevrtVzRfwDFK7nm3KS99FZvWtEn4ZWI Sc7EIelyTyHZK38BWdhIGyC2nP1izDmQVqnDFLkPyPBIckWusA38Oi4mk325y67uuy1b xduGb6K+NkfYh3WHfEyKmudKJZaiszn76mN125+/6Id8yzAqvYflr8B7vy8m8Ug5M64d XgDA+b4pGqtZpM2MvUEsOgIOBD+kiwkQ0vO9bF0CWYNaQMn6is6JwXSnDypcQ2C6vQEp 4FK1MHhC1s6f4L7/efqcH/7kIFpPSoPX1mQPGAZgQWJU3rJeT17Bl4rJnQmbZBN71whd wHbQ== X-Received: by 10.224.8.131 with SMTP id h3mr21747945qah.61.1400995669866; Sat, 24 May 2014 22:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.96.148.197 with HTTP; Sat, 24 May 2014 22:27:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87a9a79gvk.fsf@debian.uxu> X-Google-Sender-Auth: BAprH7G9_9GjU-xUgQ1iJMUyIAY X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::231 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:97842 Archived-At: On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 1:22 AM, Emanuel Berg wrot= e: > I have been looking for a way to > do simple diagrams (trees, FSMs and so on) with the > keyboard only (i.e., generate from definitions) - I > have tried with ImageMagick and even Dia, as it uses > XML, so why not edit that first hand? I do my diagrams in a self-invented semi-human-readable markup language[1], which is then post-processed using Python scripts into Graphviz[2] graph description language, which is then further rendered into any image format you like (notably PNG, SVG, PDF and EPS). My format of choice happens to be SVG, which I can conveniently view in my web browser, print out without any loss of quality, and/or embed in an HTML page. [1] http://yurivkhan.github.io/textuml/ but see also http://sf.net/plantuml/ for a Java-based alternative [2] http://www.graphviz.org/ One could write Graphviz directly but it is too low-level and verbose. I view it as a graph assembly language and build higher-level tools on top of it. > Answer: Problem with both approaches is that it > required too much back-and-forth > edit-and-check-and-fix-and-check-etc. so it just wasn't > pleasant or efficient (perhaps if you had a dual > monitor/projector and on-the-fly-update it would be). Yes, it involves this feedback loop, and it=E2=80=99s mildly frustrating. A= nd yes, dual monitors help very much. > When I got a cool diagram, how do you propose I embed > it with the LaTeX PDF? In my opinion, nohow. PDFs are for getting your article printed, and that=E2=80=99s becoming more and more irrelevant. Better publish online in HTML with illustrations in SVG. (But if you must, Graphviz can also generate Encapsulated PostScript which LaTeX will happily include in the PDF.)