From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Native display of line numbers Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 12:32:19 +0700 Message-ID: References: <83lgoqzm0v.fsf@gnu.org> <83tw3dxs60.fsf@gnu.org> <83k249xgs2.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1497850403 22501 195.159.176.226 (19 Jun 2017 05:33:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2017 05:33:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 19 07:33:19 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dMpJO-0005d7-UD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 07:33:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40690 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dMpJT-0002Jd-VR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 01:33:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38530) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dMpIs-0002JY-NT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 01:32:47 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dMpIr-0007Eg-Lk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 01:32:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]:33607) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dMpIo-0007Dq-Au; Mon, 19 Jun 2017 01:32:42 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id m7so15870599wmg.0; Sun, 18 Jun 2017 22:32:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=S1VI6DSvLBYPJR9ujg/yX7yYE9IkD4i5LxpWj2d0XIg=; b=k2iLjXT+jYyxry2IXXrkJQpfUdbe38uFh3tzdClw2mBBdqGEuBQXEiCBANaT+B9Hst QCEk5L/9pMtYrFPb8FlsS5KCv4s4zpRpFyZ9kWnFTqoNxDE2yiGaWKDzNiv+NVm8hyHJ bV9yxpqNy66S4gc2sxD5oi7HzaKzRDu3tp67821cgc1PWP3uV+ViaXHDydqwnSuNecSb aQmRHs6KrUtEc4SzvnVelt2bWM2t9lenyELg6kgAt6U34q7rzlzCnedk3XW74Ju33lcM 1FAN9KebXgGlW3xOaMVO9+BF0Yd6BTNCKtpKmX2xhZCsD8u984Jl94qM2xEp5pEGrKp1 Gc1g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=S1VI6DSvLBYPJR9ujg/yX7yYE9IkD4i5LxpWj2d0XIg=; b=rsYFaUWMMuhcWNH9YTkly0P9XfXEhIt5Uj+7nXHCnY4OYkcVP0xQpnp5YRnrha83re ud2RwjcCWoqN/wXMuVyF3KSPIre2484ZIkqzhzQNRgkGKxawzZiNZr1af+JXx74TmP75 Au5Xc9vWAmNhGxtEOHILhUV1DdxOqEwKcvW6s+AaOxmYKEyFeAZ91NhWD3n9j6CZwkhv yJcQef1LZ6LCCtb/5NCgFH3UixLoQsyPYsUAdHyFjB+n9c9B8rq1OLaurxgfmmVJgYkV AEbjGT50hHgnaxyMA4mJNQ+HEgyJTHq6fl/3QWC6GIVBcRr05tK3Grlg1QtLcFJHM5q7 uhJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwGGZ5lzitTDlCGpRysE77vWXv6NRz5/IU1munMoVqIB7zvU9Un gF+OH6owSf1a/K0eOkc6t761qQgRxVoq X-Received: by 10.28.74.218 with SMTP id n87mr14143371wmi.16.1497850360722; Sun, 18 Jun 2017 22:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.223.164.93 with HTTP; Sun, 18 Jun 2017 22:32:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83k249xgs2.fsf@gnu.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: rrzELlHZN7svZODeiCflRBgBs2E X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:215770 Archived-At: On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 2:00 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Some of these attract to the buffer text more strongly than others. > > Yes, but why is that a problem? And if some combinations are really > too much, then are those combinations really that frequent that they > should be source of a worry? And if they are, how come this wasn't an > issue until now? Until now, there were two facilities (fringe and margin) and their order was customizable via one boolean variable, =E2=80=98fringes-outside-margin=E2=80=99. By default, it is nil so fringes = are inside and thus closer to the text than line numbers displayed in the margins. How much is too much is subjective. > OK, and what's your point? That the line number display is not ideal? > I agree, but I think the alternatives are much worse. E.g., switching > the order can only work on TTY frames and when the fringes are > disabled, I do not understand this limitation. Could you please elaborate? > so it cannot be done by default, or we will have > inconsistent behavior. > I'm sure people who like line numbers will get > used to the arrangement of indicators soon enough; I did. Especially > since long lines are rare in source code buffers, at least IME. Depends on what we call long lines. I run Emacs in two windows side-by-side on a 24=E2=80=B3 monitor, so for me everything exceeding =E2= =89=88100 columns is a long line. My teammates sometimes break this limit, and some teams in the company I work for have a 120-column coding standard. Whenever I need to read their code, I get annoyed at them; ideally, my tool would help me cope with that annoyance, not exacerbate it. > Experience shows that using the margins for such pervasive modes is > trouble in itself, because there are modes which want to use the > margins for their own purposes. We still don't have a satisfactory > solution for those problems. The problem here is that there isn=E2=80=99t a defined protocol for sharing the margin. There was a discussion in 2015-12 on that matter. https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-12/msg00066.html