From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Experimentally unbind M-o on the trunk Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 01:07:07 +0700 Message-ID: References: <8ed9b43502ae1480e06b@heytings.org> <83r1lohqoc.fsf@gnu.org> <834kiiitxn.fsf@gnu.org> <83mtwah77h.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31749"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Jean Louis , "Alfred M. Szmidt" , Emacs developers , Gregory Heytings , Matt Armstrong , Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 11 19:08:43 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAGOR-0008C5-N8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:08:43 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33258 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAGOQ-0002jr-NN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 13:08:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36804) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAGNC-0001rQ-Vd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 13:07:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ua1-x92c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::92c]:37972) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAGN7-0008Mj-Qe; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 13:07:26 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ua1-x92c.google.com with SMTP id y35so2031683uad.5; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 10:07:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=L+4NOx/42SclGHBfKmixx2qOxMbAavn11Ymc+t+CeIg=; b=lo8tZA7psJ0B71jgQeySFkfvGMJxwVArsUZVS3qhqOUBf+MI8TpdSr5WLvnVUTjDqd ILp6YpHXJP312QcFS8xeeliryqACiEbu3kgCt4M1hXL2jEQT43VSUHc1epOIrkc3qYXS SxyKDeWHapAATRTs2uN7gMPL41umDrc+hMjRtEjk+4CEGhouQ4TP6zJOzyeM13vabfKt MA7ZDqXU6rh+H+33+MPi/dajPLYkIUREnzFc/9NI7bG8Ec89NWh5uFlNizkf1t9LJS+h vuDvYwDOr46Tb5AI5Viqb7FQhAFde44jizP3rj/it1AVfKyckLedQCt3hp2d7e3Df2h1 2Nwg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=L+4NOx/42SclGHBfKmixx2qOxMbAavn11Ymc+t+CeIg=; b=tt1dqnsBpILUIC/2zilfRP9Vo2u7qx0tr5WvxGHYeGO3eXqCmnTsd/CZO8r0lcEBSf wbmic650E5d88k9bU8Q76T4GLqSRrQRKKywYA+066J8cDpSWSchPFyt0DCznuACLwqbk sum0l7HM1FZwSZYB5Ca1lJszVY+aS/Kyke6VD7AyC1Tcu/6A5MEmU0DJOKLvYbQRUlAc xYbfcjJUA8HkSTrVtl7LsFFhH40Xg52RUGfL30O/9o+QFvDdVAJ2kEu6Cv3c/a1GUzT6 MbUmTIchcgLL0xpW2EJ3BY46gGULZuEn0Y2gEG68DbLvLsasYM8YxFL1CBJ5wBpDTxGx aWHw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533frGWcIy8ct80s15ioLbW4WWefUcX2qKFNruD8kMANccfZl+/q VDdWTGKTBvFG5NezV+wq463Wc/FDSTOCtOEzCvf/UCZD X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyoH/76X6jDfozJ+aGh+htXDlQhwQWSEsg2SLewYeS/lWGmcVw2Y0UiL7iWfxC3oIN3ucqLym38fpJStxxw+7s= X-Received: by 2002:ab0:7001:: with SMTP id k1mr5911687ual.41.1613066838943; Thu, 11 Feb 2021 10:07:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83mtwah77h.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::92c; envelope-from=yurivkhan@gmail.com; helo=mail-ua1-x92c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264419 Archived-At: On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 at 23:58, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > That only works well if you can guess, up front, which top-level menu > item has the command you are looking for. Which is not easy, except > for a few trivial operations, especially with very large and > feature-rich programs like Emacs. Traversing the entire menu > structure looking for what you want is not my idea of good time, even > though I have much more patience doing that than most newbies > nowadays. Yet, traversing a hierarchical structure, trying to guess the correct path, is exactly what I tend to do when looking for something. If the hierarchy maps well to my guesses, I find things quickly and am happy. If I have to use search, I feel disappointed. I am not alone in this. We are a subset of computer users. We are the same people who want to click a building on the map rather than type a company name into the search box. (My pet theory is that this preference to {search|find icons|traverse hierarchies} correlates to the {auditory|visual|kinaesthetic} learning modality.)