From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Getting Emacs to play nice with Hunspell and apostrophes Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 12:45:50 +0700 Message-ID: References: <87ha3s71mt.fsf@debian.uxu> <87tx7rsevi.fsf@debian.uxu> <8738fbscao.fsf@debian.uxu> <8738f8w988.fsf@debian.uxu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1402724777 4261 80.91.229.3 (14 Jun 2014 05:46:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 05:46:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" To: Emanuel Berg Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 14 07:46:10 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Wvgn3-0004ON-Vp for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2014 07:46:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34261 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wvgn1-0000ab-HV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2014 01:46:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:58781) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wvgmq-0000aL-4W for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2014 01:45:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wvgml-0001zA-Ps for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2014 01:45:56 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qc0-x235.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c01::235]:37315) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Wvgml-0001z1-LS for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Jun 2014 01:45:51 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qc0-f181.google.com with SMTP id x13so5157512qcv.26 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:45:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FpdeuikqLpeRk5mbEWF7rcwDlGR+lGCxl5FNIFMyUgo=; b=FUiFRXs24lVnXm2JrPZegAIROch90nO0wkV2FYPCd6WdVe9otDS/UXk5ffmedUCCl+ /fd5PeyDUOLueNBVN5xtQhvrN23CuKwdfBLniFdKBrwt82Wyvl45ynI4pJvJc6R6NVNN Gkho7N14E2MxlCAq96KoyT03zfeOwT6E3LoYLv4OdMDnd4zFLXIgMzAmXZEKURVtENH2 smO2f8j5hGg37G9pvFMsXcaTCy5fFk3/4UI8rXIijBOiPAfXpMY491Kl6MA5DDtVUJ4J ofnXzghFgJckFoB4X+iAdDOenKXQfyg9Nh3B5OehRkFD5jt2KdV8oS3PvRv1TpFI2lmw rUgw== X-Received: by 10.229.246.74 with SMTP id lx10mr9591262qcb.8.1402724751015; Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.96.154.73 with HTTP; Fri, 13 Jun 2014 22:45:50 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8738f8w988.fsf@debian.uxu> X-Google-Sender-Auth: oFEtfUAZa7dE3atLXeQZo3TRhGE X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c01::235 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:98237 Archived-At: On Sat, Jun 14, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Emanuel Berg wrot= e: > The =E2=80=9C and =E2=80=99 just looks silly and they are > disruptive. The two chars after the words "such as" I > cannot see (they are shown as diamonds). This is where I disagree. Curly quotes (and, in Russian print tradition, double angle quotes) are what I am used to seeing in print and consider to be the correct way to write, independent of the medium. Straight quotes I recognize in both print and on screen as a no longer necessary homage to the old clunky typewriter, and perceive as silly. As for your problems seeing curly quotes, that=E2=80=99s because of your display engine. Text mode Linux console is limited to at most 512 character shapes; this limitation dates back to the original VGA card and is another one that should no longer affect us. Nowadays, you should be able to use a graphical-based text renderer =E2=80=94 be it X11 o= r framebuffer. Myself, I haven=E2=80=99t bothered to set up a framebuffer console on any of my computers =E2=80=94 I prefer working in an X11 environment with Freetype-rendered, subpixel-antialiased Unicode fonts and rich xkb customizability. > the question is *why* - > what is the gain? who would benefit from it, and how > so? By encoding more precise character semantics into our texts, we make them better suited for any kind of automated processing. Conflating similarly shaped characters, on the other hand, makes it more complicated. For example, the task of producing nice printouts from an ASCII-encoded source requires a complex piece of software like [La]TeX, or the mechanism of entity references in HTML (“). On the other hand, with UTF-8, we can directly encode the desired characters in a text document and print it out with any text editor or web browser. (You can, of course, argue that a printout of an ASCII document with straight quotes is not too ugly; or that TeX is not exceedingly complex; or that entity references are not very disrupting.) > OK, let me tell you how I do ' and ". ' I do by moving > my right little finger one step (key) to the right. The > " I do by moving the right little finger to the right > shift, at the same time as the ring finger slides along > to the ' key. Now let me tell you how I do curly quotes. First, with my right thumb, I hold the AltGr modifier. Then, I press k and l in sequence to get a balanced pair of double curly quotes, or ; and ' for single quotes (I customized my xkb configuration files to get this but it works similarly with the out-of-the-box config). This works for me in both Latin/English and Cyrillic/Russian layouts. On the other hand, the straight quote is only available in the Latin layout; in Russian, I would have to first switch to Latin, then type the single quote, and finally switch back to Russian.