From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 22:28:23 +0700 Message-ID: References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> <20180910181615.GA4829@ACM> <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180912131602.GA5582@ACM> <87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180913174640.GB4019@ACM> <8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180914104833.GA4103@ACM> <83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org> <874leq799e.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <835zz5ie17.fsf@gnu.org> <87musg0wyf.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <83va73f0mv.fsf@gnu.org> <83musegaf2.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537284449 27041 195.159.176.226 (18 Sep 2018 15:27:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 15:27:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: hw@adminart.net, spacibba@aol.com, Joost Kremers , Noam Postavsky , Emacs developers , Alan Mackenzie , Drew Adams , Phillip Lord To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 18 17:27:24 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g2HuL-0006pH-Aj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 17:27:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40845 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2HwR-0006Po-LJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:29:31 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36665) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2Hvk-0006Pf-LS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:28:49 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2Hve-0002JF-R7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:28:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-oi0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22d]:46997) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g2Hva-0002DH-2G; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 11:28:38 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id y207-v6so2132624oie.13; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:28:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=n6oMUC0L1+eQ1TkB1CcKUm3HEQlaDtOxMSRn4S0LVi8=; b=b1gYGxOX9KpmzJtpY81LvtwdI89sJul9AU0TFEuFSxjoRMs/HDHYlLyKBHF/KLj4rM aaixTsTpTFkgkv+KlkoUzxGtrOMMB+V+0q/LMHu22S9YNQBHaSurEM5nWTR6YJiTZi2P 90gkS5zs+eEtg+7ezNbOIlkh8Es5Xf6j2k69aoPYfmOac7ERG3GSbRqQp9NI5M0ADfb3 6NEw/DuYKtsvQGhwdP1O/VacI5ZP63ZImqKo0VDBClCsTB9mIP8j4GFz7vxiwKTUF6hL 1FP170sgq5OWRAHmptLgAhYVM0+gWTpUzdBpFHSddbsu2LQ7VOo0LAA/VWvBdRJkRukQ cDCw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=n6oMUC0L1+eQ1TkB1CcKUm3HEQlaDtOxMSRn4S0LVi8=; b=PBMHWLpl+Wn59fk5aMw7qoS2AANu3Zu9TKDbY4OVXuiGqwO8cs7zcWUjovmBRQoZ+P gxR64fkUgRw2owtTYdy2yA5pRSErFypU32SYx9ASbXT2e+fH+xIajBc3cQkBXqt/ovGD HbNg2Ifr+655G4kbvzvq26NNh6oCtNpzZt1aKaF3g/MDMf6UsNEWGgSANyNgkdxF+DDo Q7bY4X2E8P8AVLEn7h+fPxFmObSdF89/lCgvDKR2yM1kpgpdivWoQ1Gqp9SNJ7ahIwZu w9moDxk5JFX4fvhmuNPwKQ8WKGwWGgB09/76Wr8o7ypmbWdyfuInKhulQmqp4U0GarN1 9EpQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51Cdr/RJo9PK11YcaKmPl+SlpWbZMBfT5w6ZFtoH/PttX4S6WVtd scBhMtxOBLopqpvyF7j+rlkz8hMEkT4akgy8eV7RBGI0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYA6xWEB/5SfZgPsBjfeMQYvXhD+7JcKv2wLT4kw9/W83ETrt6JhSawYpOLfqTMbMBJ6tH+fkj0d9qCKGGGBD4= X-Received: by 2002:aca:e487:: with SMTP id b129-v6mr1808327oih.291.1537284516991; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 08:28:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83musegaf2.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229942 Archived-At: On Tue, Sep 18, 2018 at 9:16 PM Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > What changes by delete-selection-mode cannot be worked around by > > (temporarily) deactivating the region? > > Deactivating the region makes it disappear from view, which I think we > should avoid. Users will not expect the region to disappear. > Moreover, this is currently impossible, because your fictional C-S-g > command doesn't exist. Well, your hypothetical =E2=80=9Cdisable-delete-selection-mode-temporarily= =E2=80=9D does not exist either. > If we are going to introduce a command for temporarily disabling or > re-enabling the region, we had better do it without making it > disappear from display, IMO. As a user of transient-mark-mode, shift-select-mode and delete-selection-mode, I=E2=80=99d expect to be among the target audience f= or this facility being discussed. But, strangely, I very rarely find myself in a situation where I have an active region that I want to preserve for later while wanting to type something. I am certainly okay with temporarily deactivating the mark and the region highlighting, if I know I=E2=80=99ll be easily able to re-activate it. How would a command to temporarily suspend delete-selection-mode work? I assume the user will have to press at least one key to invoke it. Then, I expect there will be an unpredictable sequence of self-insert and/or yank and/or other editing commands, so the user will also indicate the moment when he/she wants delete-selection-mode back. At this point, it is not going to be any more efficient than just binding delete-selection-mode to an easy key or binding C-S-g to (lambda () (interactive) (activate-mark)); each of these takes one keypress before and one keypress after typing-without-replacing-selection. Also, a user who enables and disables d-s-m often would need some kind of indication of its current status =E2=80=94 either a modeline lighter or = a special face for the region when it is active but will not be replaced by typing.