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From: Yuri Khan <yuri.v.khan@gmail.com>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs as word processor
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:06:22 +0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAP_d_8VBzcOOzFwQywAqTJP0WddgoDPayRng+Ra5gQwgQQ30ZQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87txf133yd.fsf@zigzag.favinet>

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 4:06 AM, Thien-Thi Nguyen <ttn@gnuvola.org> wrote:

> If "faces" (the concept) were to include these extra-character features,
> then their composition would be greatly complicated.  Too, application
> (i'm imagining the case of yanking text w/ a ‘face’ text-property that
> controls, say, pre-paragraph line-spacing into the middle of other text,
> which has conflicting specs, or a context where "paragraph" does not
> even have meaning).

In *Office, styles are subdivided into “character styles” and
“paragraph styles” (and, more recently, “list styles” and “table
styles”). Text that is cut or copied out of the middle of a paragraph
does not carry paragraph styles with it. Thus, pasted into a paragraph
with different spacing, it assumes the spacing of the target paragraph
(as spacing is a paragraph style feature).

On the other hand, a whole paragraph, when cut, carries all its
paragraph styles, and all its content carries its character styles.

Additionally, if text is not explicitly formatted with character
styles or character-level direct formatting, it behaves as plain text
when cut, assuming the character styles of the paste target.

Also, text can be explicitly marked as e.g. italic but otherwise have
no font-related formatting. Thus, it will inherit other properties
from the context: if pasted into a body paragraph whose base font is
black normal straight Times New Roman 10pt, it becomes black normal
italic Times New Roman 10pt; but pasted into a heading whose base font
is blue bold straight Arial 16pt, becomes blue bold italic Arial 16pt.

This is in fact very similar to Emacs’ face composition mechanism
where many faces may be applied simultaneously, with some properties
of some faces being undefined.


Now, problems arise when characters *do* have explicit character-level
formatting that is visually indistinguishable from the base paragraph
font. Such text *will* carry the font with it when copied and pasted,
giving the user the feeling of unpredictability and not being in
control.

Another frequent problem with WYSIWYG formatted text editors is
pasting text copied from a different application, such as a web
browser or a different word processor. It is then common to retain as
much formatting as is available in the source document, which is
rarely what the user expects.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2013-11-25  3:06 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 239+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-11-17  7:28 Emacs as word processor Richard Stallman
2013-11-17  8:18 ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-18 18:44   ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-18 22:12     ` Rasmus
2013-11-19  6:02       ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  8:01         ` joakim
2013-11-19 23:42           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-20  6:54             ` joakim
2013-11-20 18:01               ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-23  6:07               ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19 10:57         ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19 12:20           ` Thorsten Jolitz
2013-11-19 14:35             ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19 13:28         ` Sivaram Neelakantan
2013-11-20 18:35           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26  8:38     ` Tom
2013-11-26 15:58       ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26 23:08         ` Bastien
2013-11-26 23:26           ` Lennart Borgman
2013-12-15 16:16         ` Steinar Bang
2013-11-17 11:16 ` Daniel Colascione
2013-11-17 13:02   ` Nic Ferrier
2013-11-17 13:55     ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-17 14:15       ` Juergen Fenn
2013-11-17 18:57         ` chad
2013-11-18  4:20   ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-18  5:06     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
     [not found]       ` <"<l6dsng$6h4$1"@ger.gmane.org>
     [not found]         ` <"<87mwl04w3k.fsf"@zigzag.favinet>
     [not found]       ` <l6dsng$6h4$1"@ger.gmane.org>
     [not found]         ` <87mwl04w3k.fsf"@zigzag.favinet>
2013-11-18 18:44       ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-18 19:42         ` Sean Sieger
2013-11-18 19:46           ` Sean Sieger
2013-11-19  6:01           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  7:08             ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-18 20:19         ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-19  6:02           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  8:46             ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-19  9:39               ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19 11:21               ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19 14:35               ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-19 15:54                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-20 18:35                   ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-21 15:25                     ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-21 16:18                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21 21:27                       ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-21 22:03                         ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-22  0:51                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-22  6:37                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-22 21:06                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-22 15:04                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 15:26                             ` Davis Herring
2013-11-22 16:06                               ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-22 17:56                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 19:01                                 ` John Yates
2013-11-22 21:17                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
     [not found]                                     ` <CAJnXXoi2biZ0uOAB9s-0Y5=9EujpCV4a=CemR-K+wHeJVSB51A@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                                       ` <83a9gvcyq3.fsf@gnu.org>
2013-11-23 15:13                                         ` John Yates
2013-11-23 15:24                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 16:43                                             ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-23 17:52                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 21:12                                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-25 17:51                                             ` John Yates
2013-11-25 18:02                                               ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-25 18:40                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-25 18:54                                                   ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-25 18:52                                               ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-26  7:26                                                 ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-22 21:06                             ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-22 21:38                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 22:01                                 ` John Yates
2013-11-22 22:56                                   ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-23  7:55                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 22:53                                 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-23  8:22                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 13:42                                     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-24  8:13                                       ` PJ Weisberg
2013-11-24 17:44                                         ` Drew Adams
2013-11-25 20:42                                     ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-25 21:15                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-25 21:21                                         ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-25 21:54                                         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
     [not found]                     ` <<877gc14vzs.fsf@zigzag.favinet>
     [not found]                       ` <<E1Vjbn0-0005Bd-4Z@fencepost.gnu.org>
2013-11-21 22:12                         ` Drew Adams
2013-11-22  7:34                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 13:56                             ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-22 14:48                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 14:50                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-22 15:39                                 ` Yuri Khan
2013-11-22 16:07                                   ` John Yates
2013-11-23  6:06                                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-23  8:07                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23 21:12                                         ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-24  4:53                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-24 18:37                                             ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-24 20:21                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-24 20:52                                                 ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-24 21:06                                                 ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-24 21:10                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-25  2:15                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-25  3:55                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-25  5:20                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-25 17:39                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-26  2:35                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-26  3:58                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-26  7:05                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-26 15:34                                                                   ` John Yates
2013-11-26 16:57                                                                     ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-26 18:47                                                                       ` John Yates
2013-11-26 15:04                                                               ` Drew Adams
2013-11-26 19:51                                                                 ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-26 20:36                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2013-11-26 19:48                                                               ` Emacs as word processor / Text Properties Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-27  2:35                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-27 22:26                                                                 ` T.V. Raman
2013-11-27 23:01                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2013-11-27 23:06                                                                     ` T.V. Raman
2013-11-27 23:48                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2013-11-28  0:50                                                                         ` T.V. Raman
2013-11-28  1:27                                                                           ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-28  4:04                                                                             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-28  6:03                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2013-11-28  7:13                                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-28  7:34                                                                                 ` Bastien
2013-11-28  8:53                                                                                   ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-29  8:44                                                                           ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29  8:49                                                                             ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29  8:52                                                                               ` Bastien
2013-11-29  9:01                                                                                 ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29  9:05                                                                                   ` Bastien
2013-11-29  9:10                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29  9:51                                                                               ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29 11:43                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29 13:42                                                                                   ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29 14:25                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29 16:47                                                                                       ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29 19:38                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29 14:18                                                                                   ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-29 15:22                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-29 10:06                                                                             ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-29  6:50                                                                   ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-30  1:09                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-02 20:04                                                               ` Emacs as word processor Hendrik Boom
2013-11-25  3:06                                                   ` Yuri Khan [this message]
2013-11-26  0:04                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-22 17:58                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-23  0:00                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2013-11-23  6:06                               ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-23  6:05                             ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-23  6:05                           ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-15 16:39                     ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-16 17:19                       ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-16 18:02                         ` Jambunathan K
2013-12-16 18:38                         ` Allen S. Rout
2013-12-17 10:52                           ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-17 11:39                             ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-16 19:10                         ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-17 10:52                           ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-16 20:37                         ` Juan M. Gonzalez
2013-12-17 10:53                           ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-17 11:41                             ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-17 11:48                             ` Achim Gratz
2013-12-17 12:22                               ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-17 21:06                               ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-19  7:28                                 ` Bastien
2013-12-19 18:23                                   ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-19 18:45                                     ` Bastien
2013-12-19 23:24                                   ` Xue Fuqiao
2013-11-20 18:35                 ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-21  6:02                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-21 14:34                     ` Allen S. Rout
2013-11-21 21:16                       ` Tom
2013-11-22  6:54                         ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-22  7:22                           ` Ivan Andrus
2013-11-22 13:26                       ` Rüdiger Sonderfeld
2013-11-22  6:54                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-20 18:35               ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-20 18:53                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21  8:00                   ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-21 16:21                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21 18:34                       ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-21 19:06                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22  7:28                           ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-21  9:15                   ` Bastien
2013-11-21  9:22                     ` Bastien
2013-11-21 16:26                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-21 17:43                       ` Bastien
2013-11-22 10:18                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22 20:44                         ` Thorsten Jolitz
2013-11-22  6:54                     ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-22  7:48                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-22  7:52                         ` Bastien
2013-11-22 11:36                       ` Rasmus
2013-11-19  8:04         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-19 23:42           ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  9:02         ` Christoph
2013-11-19 19:22           ` chad
2013-11-20 18:35             ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-18 13:59     ` Rasmus
2013-11-17 15:27 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-18 17:26 ` Christopher Allan Webber
2013-11-18 17:31   ` Tom Tromey
2013-11-19  9:20     ` Jambunathan K
2013-11-19  6:01   ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-19  7:44     ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-19 13:32     ` Jay Belanger
2013-11-19 15:16     ` Lennart Borgman
2013-11-20  1:50     ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-20 18:35       ` Richard Stallman
2013-12-15 17:28     ` Steinar Bang
2013-12-15 18:18       ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-12-16  0:17         ` T.V. Raman
2013-12-16 10:20           ` Juan M. Gonzalez
2013-11-19  6:14   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2013-11-22 16:19 ` Karl Voit
2013-11-22 18:18   ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-24 11:11     ` Emacs will never be a WYSIWYG-editor and should not try to (was: Emacs as word processor) Karl Voit
2013-11-24 15:01       ` Emacs will never be a WYSIWYG-editor and should not try to Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-11-24 16:53       ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-11-24 17:27         ` Pascal J. Bourguignon
2013-11-25 12:24         ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26  7:01           ` Bastien
2013-11-26  9:10             ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-26  9:15               ` Bastien
2013-11-26  9:34                 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-26  9:34                   ` Bastien
2013-11-26 15:58               ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26 18:28                 ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-26 21:45                   ` Achim Gratz
2013-11-27  7:44                     ` Andreas Röhler
2013-11-26 15:58             ` Richard Stallman
2013-11-26 21:33               ` Achim Gratz
2013-11-24 18:36       ` Emacs will never be a WYSIWYG-editor and should not try to (was: Emacs as word processor) Richard Stallman
2013-11-23  6:06   ` Emacs as word processor Richard Stallman
2013-12-02 19:30 ` Hendrik Boom
2013-12-03  6:24   ` Thien-Thi Nguyen
2013-12-03  9:54   ` René Kyllingstad
2013-12-03 11:36     ` Jambunathan K
2013-12-03 16:32       ` T.V. Raman
2013-12-03 17:45         ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-12-08 17:08       ` Andreas Röhler
2013-12-13 22:28 ` Juan M. Gonzalez
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2013-11-23 21:03 Anas R.
2013-11-25 12:25 ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] <"<E1Vhwmp-0001x4-Pa"@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found] <E1Vhwmp-0001x4-Pa"@fencepost.gnu.org>

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