From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Yuri Khan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Fix some tooltip related problems Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:03:23 +0700 Message-ID: References: <5A533FA4.4030507@gmx.at> <9384bae5-cbb9-4b4d-ac5c-1d01f01c8117@default> <5A53B633.5020706@gmx.at> <41d40db5-15d8-4b2c-a058-fb6dabc8bfd3@default> <5A548E7E.2040601@gmx.at> <5A55E8ED.1010602@gmx.at> <475d480b-3885-4779-ae46-09cf7fbbcee7@default> <20180110191755.GA79229@breton.holly.idiocy.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1515654148 17207 195.159.176.226 (11 Jan 2018 07:02:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 07:02:28 +0000 (UTC) Cc: martin rudalics , Drew Adams , emacs-devel To: Alan Third Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 11 08:02:23 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eZWsY-0003xA-4H for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 08:02:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47865 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZWuV-0000oW-UY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 02:04:23 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33194) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZWtt-0000oB-Pb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 02:03:46 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZWts-0004UV-Ns for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 02:03:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-oi0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c06::231]:44537) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZWts-0004UH-I6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 02:03:44 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-oi0-x231.google.com with SMTP id g128so1009261oib.11 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 23:03:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yqpqATTahIfawDdmA16A4guMPa6MzGkXAFll+jV2zL8=; b=PMFpWojbi/eha968A+icxjGWW2bbf2IDOWtchx+9krSWwjpzPGWqRA5KKyMja2NFSR vHkNEbzt96o9k0wbapvmBitfjJ4aPKhvRaQ456HoiVfJtx5sNpI+3rEw4KM02jFcswVt yoHtjrrbRrYIB/R0Z3nsZQwQLU7etQuS7+IWEElls/1g+uOnAfAxku0veAIVEeU3dXSr X4Xc7CGXWylU27R+fI6GYWXJDGZlA0dZiV6hd2m1DhO8RmmBSZh4jo1LMBPcpG1QEcCf zwtAY2LD4bX5LaLxJYuououVj+GDQC2das+pI6RTDTBR/KXf/bgid3U0P80USQe88JsU ndCg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=yqpqATTahIfawDdmA16A4guMPa6MzGkXAFll+jV2zL8=; b=f6qa5fN6MOT+p365/OkpY1yklPhmgkfQNrJq0ryCq1OtZA1leFtubdoGo9BStlGDJb lZIuCDzMrwndPyJF6z3Z0NE/AWU2Ws9ROvCpJYxZJ6XKrzP8VSeCFOx3SlGGhpS//RVL 8L7EaqkRAmChNrW6UdofWJEgglFFb+8KimvKOvrxFJKIeF4qRzBo/whl/c/K6u5MZfpE ChME9R//WU82K7DvHRpv0Ba2kHR31EFk3NFRA6vX1+vnZFTm+rhDKSsqU3qqxDyU841N nY2WJXuXspWeSaxo3NdmoV/I5s8L0YUFKEyph9OqwL8m4kWG5Gh3huC6SkL0As6fpM+G /Gmg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKwxytchYOlh/JoW5etzprTtb2degr47Wkyslce9wolLSTnwtFN1bX5o LBJ66Qmp4exSdIJCNh4FMvuwTwJmJfUBVFPgpJk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovM8CPmtNiuvyrEO4tdcVv6sB0OEPdE4d9jGBDZWbOZRt7vFBftiKK0pCLbohAqISu6hMj7vpKjrl10IVKlVU0= X-Received: by 10.202.74.84 with SMTP id x81mr1946086oia.291.1515654223630; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 23:03:43 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.74.121.148 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Jan 2018 23:03:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20180110191755.GA79229@breton.holly.idiocy.org> X-Google-Sender-Auth: MCwSom4lUndSd1nuYJiqn1GQU8Y X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c06::231 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:221825 Archived-At: On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 2:17 AM, Alan Third wrote: > It=E2=80=99s beyond me why you=E2=80=99d want to dim a tooltip. Dimming o= f menu items > is standard behaviour on many platforms whereas dimming a tooltip is, > afaik, a completely novel behaviour and as a result would just be > confusing. It might be worthwhile to look at how tooltips of other unavailable things behave. Case in point: A disabled button on a toolbar that shows icons only (no text labels). The text label traditionally goes into the tooltip. The tooltip is displayed always, no matter if the button is enabled or disabled. However, in that case we have a visual indication that the button is disabled: its icon goes gray and dim. We don=E2=80=99t have that indication= on the modeline of the only window in an Emacs frame. Also, this discussion assumes that we need to hide, or modify the appearance of, the tooltip *because* the actions it describes are unavailable. How could we change the behavior so that they would be available even if the window is the only one in its frame? Possible answer: Look at the splitter controls in some of Microsoft products (Word, Visual Studio). (Or LibreOffice Calc.) The splitter is there always, and always draggable, whether the window is split or not. If the window is split, dragging the splitter resizes the panes. If the window is not split, dragging the splitter splits it. If the window is split and the user drags the splitter to either extreme end of the range, the pane that got resized to zero is removed.