From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Richard Copley Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22202: 24.5; SECURITY ISSUE -- Emacs Server vulnerable to random number generator attack on Windows systems Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2015 19:49:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83lh8ddy45.fsf@gnu.org> <8760zh81oo.fsf@isaac.fritz.box> <83mvssc4ix.fsf@gnu.org> <1451581478.15612.5.camel@gmail.com> <834meybf2v.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451693661 4343 80.91.229.3 (2 Jan 2016 00:14:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 00:14:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 22202@debbugs.gnu.org, Demetrios Obenour , David Engster To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 02 01:14:12 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aF9pj-0004w1-1A for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 01:14:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37030 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aF9pi-0001oV-7g for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:14:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38670) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aF9pf-0001ng-7h for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:14:07 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aF9pa-0005wf-7P for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:14:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:45749) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aF9pa-0005wW-2n for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:14:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aF9pZ-0000nM-UM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:14:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Richard Copley Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2016 00:14:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22202 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: security Original-Received: via spool by 22202-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22202.14516936333035 (code B ref 22202); Sat, 02 Jan 2016 00:14:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22202) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jan 2016 00:13:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33969 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aF9pR-0000mt-0B for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:13:53 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-yk0-f174.google.com ([209.85.160.174]:35118) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aF9pP-0000mh-Nz for 22202@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 19:13:51 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-yk0-f174.google.com with SMTP id x67so203869835ykd.2 for <22202@debbugs.gnu.org>; Fri, 01 Jan 2016 16:13:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=944j8NI4XxFO732nXERdpAO6K/oDge5D5YT4y6mjerY=; b=VDJHIQixnQIC1U9TyFBE916IFvM/ug8V2cKnauyOiHRzubsZ/aWGA/EE+mmDM5WgSn JkS/yv/t5ahJrdpmBx2Kj67ckyZJrCZFjJpSddor18OvRtdEi9VkpGbzgpahjGUKLSI1 4JHLiebnVndQem9QRiSXYq4R8mZwSxnxOHHeJDJz5KUbeEIp2eMGKgW4UUsG7AXLGs3y pTlrOW/RJ3Zu5V8Q9crMHSKf/62VqcDgkFgYZeDz6m1HTh1qULR5uXdQTgXHvN+Us+ed dqoV3SxuKMlQ2bYI7MkkdZ+pWvtD7VWG6QdMXWyWuVCBEY9mTyxU+zVDn/AatkNhWnb5 RZPQ== X-Received: by 10.129.19.214 with SMTP id 205mr54045945ywt.136.1451591411830; Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:50:11 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.37.207.214 with HTTP; Thu, 31 Dec 2015 11:49:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <834meybf2v.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:111068 Archived-At: >> That last patch would still improve matters. The user would have >> to be publishing the output of their PRNG to begin with in order >> for the attacker to analyse it and guess the seed. (I don't know >> how one could do that but that's no proof that it's impossible.) > >I don't even understand how that could be possible. Me either, but that doesn't make it impossible. (There are articles on the web demonstrating such feats, if you're interested.) >> What Demetri has just described is what I would do. > >Now I'm confused: do what? As I understand it: Provide a function callable from lisp that returns a cryptographically secure sequence of random bytes, of a specified length. Use that function to generate the server secret. >We still need to support 'random' with an >argument, so we cannot get rid of seeding a PRNG with a known value. >And I didn't want to remove srandom. Given the above, we could leave "random", etc., as they are, or we could use a better PRNG and/or seed with system entropy. It would no longer be tied up with this issue report.