From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Dan Hitt Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: want a file format easily edited and read by emacs that allows (multiple) pictures to be included Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 15:44:27 -0800 Message-ID: References: <86a7yydw9n.fsf@zoho.com> <20171204215223.GB1723@tuxteam.de> <86609mduhp.fsf@zoho.com> <20171204221250.GF1723@tuxteam.de> <86o9nddd7i.fsf@zoho.com> <20171205080817.GA21102@tuxteam.de> <86vahlbmh1.fsf@zoho.com> <20171205085318.GA22742@tuxteam.de> <86mv2xbj4q.fsf@zoho.com> <86a7yxbe3r.fsf@zoho.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1512577156 20201 195.159.176.226 (6 Dec 2017 16:19:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:19:16 +0000 (UTC) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Kevin Buchs Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 06 17:19:12 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eMcPT-0001Nn-19 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 17:18:59 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52487 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMMtV-00088u-Q3 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:44:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56031) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMMt5-00088n-RC for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:44:33 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMMt4-00057l-Ic for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:44:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-ot0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22d]:35055) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eMMt4-00057N-Dm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:44:30 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-ot0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id q3so1862555oth.2 for ; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 15:44:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FMTs1UYqqmKc9Fg0wbpRwYJ7z9YsPJ8qVBjo7bmgGdc=; b=dLNiBbslVf0yces3TqUVE0pvSK0SofH/QIDEDcvg5Thz1OxIsd013uPEeCzdBPJRLX +whyMUGM+g07t8UYmVqqZKbU3kta6tFCCSixkkGEoN9kvzx1t2SZcAcx5jxvEWAuWu8x B7/WOtxzMlOVcd68V/wXWHNUdtnvE30yuCS7qXrmMMvRPrv+7qoQfDG9W9ilTiVMY8y/ M5GrRApvuRFWLcjmXt0jm8FgJHle2wADP7t+NO/AfV8zaKLGFl6nblY4fHIZejc+aqEN 8e6qDXGRIjMKTUXxLDgU/kcR0fmoRQO7cZLkVpWg4p/605UHuRzI8cGXZKzQcEV1XPUk VA4Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FMTs1UYqqmKc9Fg0wbpRwYJ7z9YsPJ8qVBjo7bmgGdc=; b=lwZJF13iIsDqkWv5bkhMatSYrJibBjPTrQmQvzrIac5JKfXOmMFJ7ITqdGdA+enfbz IpPSEh2hn03JKnbfti75cZzaBewCXQi1SCI/oWeFh1ey1rLdRjuVemYy8BI9P87QN8EZ 78ZeMw/c0Y4nORaow5WnxxzKPKpUeCXDKcYv3/16iixIQ9GEnaVCZyNN7PBkTTlcNA2w sdODJK71cJq88fkcbDnTlVRkq4UkcTT2F2h3GRIed3BDt4IaemuhVahBk5728ToDEUVU +JgSjxyf40HEPpKiEL01Ztr6pWdR2DEExZOIXFDkeaH0ck3yF8+xOSI0kVsm1hyaOfLN a0/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4/5xBnuyEL5kXKLqfcGllqU1exI/duoetiqSU2V+0k2NQu1O8j FmpFKTq33OJIlgRcLNN+LEo8I5ChurkMxHNc7p4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYZJ7/giNF5XTh8muZHGyWGrZOjQFyY0vM+1gCSXY/9uoD0CiC4A9L9tN4aX/z8ytANwue9hKLfJySEScB1cWU= X-Received: by 10.157.14.145 with SMTP id 17mr20524390otj.20.1512517467954; Tue, 05 Dec 2017 15:44:27 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.74.92.140 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 15:44:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4003:c0f::22d X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:115252 Archived-At: On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 6:49 AM, Kevin Buchs wrote: > Emmanuel, > > It seems to me you didn=E2=80=99t get a complete answer to your question = of the use > of the org+embedded image. Of course, the OP is the best one to answer, b= ut > here is what I gleaned. > > 1. OP requested a method to create & edit a document in emasculated that > would include images that were visible during editing and used minimal > markup. Org Filled that need. > > 2. The OP next requested a way to have a single file document with the > images embedded within that file. Think Microsoft Word documents. Transpo= rt > and sharing are two tasks that are simplified with just a single file, bu= t > the OP may have other use cases. It also simplifies the file-system foot > print and =E2=80=9Cremembering=E2=80=9D which image file goes with which = document. > > 3. Marcion (sorry about incorrect spelling) created a quick answer, > although it didn=E2=80=99t fully satisfy the OP requirements. It uses org= , which > still requires an independent file for each image, but it now carries Eli= sp > code to regenerate the images. So now the single file contains everything > you need to view and edit, but you need to execute the elisp if the image > files don=E2=80=99t exist. The export to PDF or HTLM are supported by org= mode. > > Kevin Buchs > (My master org-mode file is over 3 MB and contains all my notes for work > and personal life) Hi Kevin, I think that's a good summary of how the question appeared. It's not exactly what i had in mind, which is what is in the subject line: "want a file format easily edited and read by emacs that allows (multiple) pictures to be included", but i didn't explain it very well. So what i was looking for was a file format which made a provision for text portions and image portions, and which could also be edited by emacs. I did not have Word in mind, although if emacs could edit it i guess it would fit the bill. I had in mind something more like IFF --- the file format family Electronic Arts introduced in the mid 1980s (sort of like the later RIFF/wav formats). It has a little header, and then chunks of data identified by tags and lengths. I thought that if something like this existed and was spread around at all, then emacs might have a mode for editing the text parts. Conceptually, at least, such a format would not be hard to display and edit, especially if you already have the means for showing images; i would expect emacs to keep track of the headers and adjust them as the sections expanded or contracted. That corresponds to your point #1. And in fact, if anything like that existed, i'd still be interested. However, Danny Yue (sheepduke) looked at the actual usage i had in mind (keeping notes) and thought org would be a good match. I hadn't used org, even though everybody is always talking about it, because it didn't sound right for me. I thought it couldn't hold its own data but would have to make reference to the underlying file system. That's your point #2. But then Marcin said that would be easy to remedy, and then wrote code to do exactly that, and described it all in a blog post http://mbork.pl/2017-12-04_Embedding_files_in_Org-mode And then it emerged, as was known to most of the world except me, that there are all kinds of things org can do, such as maintaining lists that you can easily rearrange, having collapsible points, displaying Greek letters (which you can toggle back and forth between a parsed and display form), being much nicer to look at than markdown, and of course being able to execute arbitrary code. So although i'm still interested in a file format, because i like binary things in known formats, and i like using the file program to identify them, the case for org is pretty compelling. :) :) dan