From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Reuben Thomas Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#17742: Acknowledgement (Support for enchant?) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 18:26:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <834m2hjbmr.fsf@gnu.org> <83bmwfbxaf.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113ec0baba257c05438e5ca9 X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1481653637 10766 195.159.176.226 (13 Dec 2016 18:27:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 18:27:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 17742@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 13 19:27:11 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cGrnC-0001LF-2j for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:27:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40023 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cGrnG-00074R-2r for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:27:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42242) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cGrn8-00074L-Kg for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:27:08 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cGrn4-000868-BV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:27:06 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:53833) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cGrn4-000863-7Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:27:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cGrn3-0004tp-Vt for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:27:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Reuben Thomas Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2016 18:27:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 17742 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 17742-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B17742.148165361318817 (code B ref 17742); Tue, 13 Dec 2016 18:27:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 17742) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Dec 2016 18:26:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40999 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cGrmt-0004tP-UC for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:26:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-lf0-f46.google.com ([209.85.215.46]:32807) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cGrmr-0004tA-Ku for 17742@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 13:26:50 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-lf0-f46.google.com with SMTP id c13so33427585lfg.0 for <17742@debbugs.gnu.org>; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 10:26:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sc3d.org; s=google; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=yG1KhTs1kn3YP1nFrRvec4IM2Hh7z/BqhpEXNhCXPhU=; b=2LWQgKM7iuKGGH/8NbvbJRXMDxZNNAOwLjqFJYSiPQ5wpBVK4mgGKug1CBP2VT5pou I1zSgadew8qdwYiF6kJkCwz1zVoGXfFHixkZKh+cS5HGNCF4jE+EQAiNF2UzkAbUKZmr RGliWKMw9Yfd4aXCs4COYCAsQXlKaa8k62Dic= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=yG1KhTs1kn3YP1nFrRvec4IM2Hh7z/BqhpEXNhCXPhU=; b=FdRKTjt/B+VlFkQiwvSZkdeNsf+lBAVu2iK5bOaCpuu7lIL+FCfrnJUz0J2i5Rzxye SJvuxIMA5/2Skl0wqwfKT9xZ9IIa2LH7XMXPBVdXELhYlc/E1M77gYxwOLNLkCik1rFo 1Pb90M5WYDxSJTAlhGGQHpOWeZU//C+ZcEShEy8ynaTZym4ZD6vCEwzNqxM9qKKr9hLA IjiuTzIu4ezRWwTDczMYwncED93cUW+ypIfKVLfYtasI4TLV4thG20/VGk2WaN96LSTS /aZoy9FBZfD3p2a+CkVtNVy7cKQCJrD/uIkOIM3TDldN9bMnmYyMzNU/8TWOzVBSZbPE LdOg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKaTC014KunPoSvtxZMkXYm0EbCU72S1Nz+GGc9QPXxaI2W6aX6dV6wjEBwu/jCutCe0J82uIBFRm/zoCazZCeqY X-Received: by 10.25.64.16 with SMTP id n16mr1637212lfa.119.1481653603666; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 10:26:43 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by 10.25.190.2 with HTTP; Tue, 13 Dec 2016 10:26:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83bmwfbxaf.fsf@gnu.org> X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:126996 Archived-At: --001a113ec0baba257c05438e5ca9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 13 December 2016 at 16:37, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > I'm sorry, I don't think this is good enough for any language but > English. I looked at a few Hunspell dictionaries I have, and almost > all of them have some non-[:alpha:] characters in what becomes > CASECHARS when ispell.el sets up itself for that dictionary. So this > seems to be really important for correct spell-checking of almost any > language. Moreover, these settings must be in sync with the words in > the dictionary, so it isn't just some general setting determined by > the dictionary's language, it must come from the dictionary or its > authors. > =E2=80=8BI agree, this is something that seems to be lacking in Enchant.=E2= =80=8B > I understand that Enchant doesn't yet support these features, but in > that case we must provide our users with some way of customizing these > settings, we cannot silently use defaults that are most probably > inappropriate, even if they are 90% correct. > =E2=80=8BThe way to customize it is surely the same as currently, namely=E2= =80=8B to customize ispell-dictionary-alist?=E2=80=8B > Do the dictionaries used by Enchant really fail to provide this > information? Aren't they Aspell dictionaries or similar? > =E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BEnchant has no dictionaries of its own, it's just a proxy= for hunspell, aspell &c. So, as I said before, it would be possible to find out which back-end is being used for a particular dictionary, and then to try to use the existing ispell.el code to scan for that dictionary. However, this is not an ideal solution, because it is going "behind Enchant's back". Given that even management of personal word lists needs a patch to Enchant, it seems to me better to first try to engage with the Enchant maintainers on this. There's also one obvious question, namely, what do other Enchant users do? Enchant is used in Abiword (free word processor), Pidgin (free IM client) etc. So, I shall look into this. However, I think that this patch can be installed anyway, as out of the box Enchant will never be used (as I have commented in the code, auto-detection of Enchant is not safe until a new version is widespread, as unlike old versions of ispell and aspell, a current version of Enchant is not merely lacking functions, it is useless), and for some Emacs users, it could be useful, as it allows access to spellcheckers currently unsupported by Emacs (albeit, as you note, probably requiring customized dictionary setup). --=20 http://rrt.sc3d.org --001a113ec0baba257c05438e5ca9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On = 13 December 2016 at 16:37, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:

I'm sorry, I don't think this is good enough for any language but English.=C2=A0 I looked at a few Hunspell dictionaries I have, and almost all of them have some non-[:alpha:] characters in what becomes
CASECHARS when ispell.el sets up itself for that dictionary.=C2=A0 So this<= br> seems to be really important for correct spell-checking of almost any
language.=C2=A0 Moreover, these settings must be in sync with the words in<= br> the dictionary, so it isn't just some general setting determined by
the dictionary's language, it must come from the dictionary or its
authors.

=E2=80=8BI agree, this is something that seems to = be lacking in Enchant.=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
I understand that Enchant doesn't ye= t support these features, but in
that case we must provide our users with some way of customizing these
settings, we cannot silently use defaults that are most probably
inappropriate, even if they are 90% correct.

=E2=80=8BThe w= ay to customize it is surely the same as currently, namely=E2=80=8B to cust= omize ispell-dictionary-alist?=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
Do the dictionaries used by Ench= ant really fail to provide this
information?=C2=A0 Aren't they Aspell dictionaries or similar?

=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BEnchant has no dictionaries of its own, it's just = a proxy for hunspell, aspell &c. So, as I said before, it would be poss= ible to find out which back-end is being used for a particular dictionary, = and then to try to use the existing ispell.el code to scan for that diction= ary. However, this is not an ideal solution, because it is going "behi= nd Enchant's back".

Given that even management of personal word list= s needs a patch to Enchant, it seems to me better to first try to engage wi= th the Enchant maintainers on this. There's also one obvious question, = namely, what do other Enchant users do? Enchant is used in Abiword (free wo= rd processor), Pidgin (free IM client) etc. So, I shall look into this.

Howev= er, I think that this patch can be installed anyway, as out of the box Ench= ant will never be used (as I have commented in the code, auto-detection of = Enchant is not safe until a new version is widespread, as unlike old versio= ns of ispell and aspell, a current version of Enchant is not merely lacking= functions, it is useless), and for some Emacs users, it could be useful, a= s it allows access to spellcheckers currently unsupported by Emacs (albeit,= as you note, probably requiring customized dictionary setup).
--
http://rrt.sc3d.org
--001a113ec0baba257c05438e5ca9--