From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: John Mastro Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: the dumb Emacs terminal Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 17:01:38 -0700 Message-ID: References: <7184db3d-3990-4d23-8362-573c62056a4f@googlegroups.com> <86k2gwwd7a.fsf@student.uu.se> <86furkw8m5.fsf@student.uu.se> <86ziprajuh.fsf_-_@student.uu.se> <86mvlradjj.fsf@student.uu.se> <86inwfa7zm.fsf@student.uu.se> <86bn26a4rj.fsf_-_@student.uu.se> <8660sea141.fsf_-_@student.uu.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1468108948 28649 80.91.229.3 (10 Jul 2016 00:02:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 00:02:28 +0000 (UTC) To: "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jul 10 02:02:28 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bM2CY-0006fu-LM for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 10 Jul 2016 02:02:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52813 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bM2CY-0003HG-1r for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:02:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41076) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bM2C7-0003Gz-UU for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:02:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bM2C6-0005gj-Py for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:01:59 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qt0-x22b.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22b]:35381) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bM2C6-0005gf-Li for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 20:01:58 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-qt0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id j35so1910045qtj.2 for ; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 17:01:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=duqEhydX1VXoDy7Q3MgJxfSz3/MiSjH/2/k00n8kN+A=; b=zINXWA3W1hlEKqKvyMbkPbsd73LXTIvJR2fxu2IpvdMGP1vMA03nSEEwW/rzDNB/OF +IPJ392v2dIo6UYKZPabPAaS52H3w7GWGB2B9F46QKB0zMCK7gpSCNDw3AcaX0lDNid1 w+mJvi9wGc0Z6aBH6sZwUf15qGY6bVPhWz1l+zBmvl8hDCym2P7yW/TpClTXRNmX31lq oFKt8t0BbVKjespWIybIBg5n9g639Nt7LB35pM53aioe+3ChtPD3eG/wuNPNCOwmntb8 bxE8bwvGC+b43OMCmXB4hv15SKzmQs/8+hicLCqFtUXqBCNVplMHEv0dFOrBJkrcX6jB oiZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=duqEhydX1VXoDy7Q3MgJxfSz3/MiSjH/2/k00n8kN+A=; b=VC5J+vweBeypomwX6l2zoHIzrGmMpVkQB0EE5k8jpv0Hf/kWKWCfDyzvoyDt8GKLpV KUiNwgPEdFucgfxd1E1YC2+G+kT26UPQlLheenBgVBCfYA2La/yPIGU15MChraV93m97 u0EhfmMfwwet60DAdvFNYcdpnw/I8gUmdWOJ0EeS5B87rZ+/LO820QjvilZveqe7qMAg DH26PQEQsUv67EE0+5dRAyQhGt7VLs74/1B7W5rSgOyLq6iwh976ifzM7OVGBq62coVU XsxLEm0n/CMQX3wMivKg19Z2YCQv3Uv1pRjgQjMuYMFqeFeGn0YWcpahYwfFzXbMJVCR I/5A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tLk67nW04LYK7hiBWjM9xF906pwIah3YwY20KgFt/3pNDL9UbjhBZyzFQUk3nt4jmA66NxVVUaNuWl9ZQ== X-Received: by 10.200.44.136 with SMTP id 8mr19846753qtw.18.1468108917991; Sat, 09 Jul 2016 17:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.237.48.77 with HTTP; Sat, 9 Jul 2016 17:01:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8660sea141.fsf_-_@student.uu.se> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22b X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:110755 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg wrote: >> M-x shell isn't really a terminal (emulator) >> at all, which is also why you can't run e.g. >> htop there. > > Right, you can't use even more basic stuff like > 'clear'. Is it just able to output new lines, > not change the state of what has already > been outputted? Yes, pretty much - it just sends a line of input and then prints the output. >> I nonetheless prefer M-x shell over Emacs's >> terminal emulators. > > Why go into the small workshop, when there is > a big? I like the simplicity and that I can work in/with the *shell* buffer just like any "normal" buffer. I do, of course, sometimes use programs that don't work there, but it's rare enough that I don't mind switching to a separate terminal emulator on those occasions. Many of the things I previously would have done in a terminal emulator that wouldn't have worked well in M-x shell I now do in various Emacs modes anyway. (Mail, some version control tasks, reading man pages, etc.) > Only a lot of shortcuts including M-x seem to > be shadowed by the shell, that must be dealt > with as I seldom or never use them with the > shell but with Emacs I do it all the time > obviously. So it should be mergable that way, > God willing. Both term and ansi-term make a distinction between "line mode" and "char mode", which send input to the shell a line at a time or a character at a time respectively. They start out in char mode by default; you can switch to line mode with C-c C-j and back to char mode with C-c C-k. Line mode is more similar to M-x shell and using it, when possible, helps close some of the distance. John